BREAKING NEWS: SAAB IS SOLD! *Updated | SaabsUnited.com

Sold to NEVS as of this morning

 

hybrid 9-3s and no turbos. smh

 

I am not exite.

 

Is this the final goodbye to GM?

 

Only if the company is unsuccessful. If they are successful, GM plans to buy them, claim the advanced technology as their own intellectual property and then wind down operations.*

 

Couldn't have said it better.

 

Man maybe they'll do some Tesla - esque engines. At least I hope :-\

Cheers!

 

as long as i can get parts for my viggen im happy. my next car will not be a SAAB.

 

My sentiments exactly.

I love Saabs, and love my 9-5. But hybrids and non-turbos? Nope.

 

I've gotta wonder what will come of this. Not thrilled at the idea of SAAB being reinvented as an electric/hybrid only auto, but it's a far better direction IMHO than having the cars end up under Chinese ownership.

 

it's a far better direction IMHO than having the cars end up under Chinese ownership.

About us

National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB is owned by National Modern Energy Holdings Ltd. (51%) and Sun Investment LLC (49%).

National Modern Energy Holdings Ltd is owned from Hong Kong and is focusing on alternative energy sources for China, using high-efficiency biomass power plant designs.

Sun Investment LLC is a Japanese investment company, focused on high-technology projects within environmental and sustainable solutions.

Chairman of National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB is Karl-Erling Trogen,
info@national-ev.se

51% Chinese, 49% Japanese.

 

Yawn..........



The true heart of Saab died when the last 9000 rolled off the line.

Anything produced after that is shit. May have had a SAAB name on it, but that's about it.

 

Yawn..........

The true heart of Saab died when the last 9000 rolled off the line.

Anything produced after that is shit. May have had a SAAB name on it, but that's about it.

^This

 

While I don't necessarily disagree will all said above, it's a pretty useless argument.

I recall reading about similar "real SAAB" arguments when the EXTREME 99 came out.

There's no doubt things became watered down over time, but there were SAAB-ish elements in everything that came out of Trollhattan up to the very end. As for finding the demarcation line, it's subjective.

 

There's no doubt things became watered down over time, but there were SAAB-ish elements in everything that came out of Trollhattan up to the very end. As for finding the demarcation line, it's subjective.

This.

The "Saabier-than-thou" shit got old back in 1967 with the pissing matches over the "real" Saabs with two-stoke engines and those new-fangled ones with the imported 4-bangers.

 

So now do I buy a turbo x....

 

i would think about it. been seen as low as 19k now

 

In the end maybe the reliable jap technology paired with cheap Chinese labor will result in Saab actually being able to sell vehicles for a profit.

:th_SmlyROFL:

But seriously. Subaru, Nissan, Honda...well performing, well selling cars.

Let's also not forget that Saabs legacy was technical innovation and doing things before the competition. Cars are moving towards hybrid and electric cars. Saab cannot survive by building a new c900 with a turbo 4banger. Today people want to buy cheap, safe, reliable cars that get them from a-b. while most of us like a "drivers car" with "soul" Saab cannot thrive on the empty wallets of broke ass enthusiasts who tinker with thei Saabs that they bought used.

Saab surviving means they need to reinvent Saab. Not find its soul.

Just ask victor.

 

Today people want to buy cheap, safe, reliable cars that get them from a-b. while most of us like a "drivers car" with "soul" Saab cannot thrive on the empty wallets of broke ass enthusiasts who tinker with thei Saabs that they bought used.

Saab surviving means they need to reinvent Saab. Not find its soul.

Those things don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I admit it would be foolish to think Saab can exist forever making the 2.0T engines we all know and love. It's part of the automotive present, but will not be competitive in the future. If a new company wants to start selling cars in a very crowded, very competitive market, they need to start by matching the best efficiency tech, if not leapfrogging it, e.g. Tesla.

I am not excited about the idea of electric/fuel cell/hybrid/whatever Saabs, mostly because I like the whistle of a spooling turbo and a burbly exhaust. But who knows what this company will come up with? Maybe it will be good, maybe it won't -- but they can't make a soulless car like a Camry and call it a Saab. Saab is soul. Saab is a niche company, a lesson painfully learned (or perhaps not) by GM. They have to be special and they have to be different or they won't sell a thing to anyone. If they only make safe, reliable, a-to-b appliances, enthusiasts will know the heart is gone, and it would take a multi-year PR campaign of epic proportions to get a half a fighting chance with the general public.

 

Keep in mind Chinese owned =/= Chinese manufacture (necessarily). It can mean that, but there are numerous companies (probably more than most realize) with Chinese interests throughout the world.

The Chinese will build what there is a market for. Not all Chinese companies exclusively produce junk. They will make what you're willing to pay for. People in the US want cheap shit. The Chinese aren't "hampered" by our "terrible" or "oppressive" regulations so they have the freedom to cut some corners and make shit for cheap. That said there are plenty of companies that are perfectly capable of making quality goods, but you have to pay to play.

 

Keep in mind Chinese owned =/= Chinese manufacture (necessarily). It can mean that, but there are numerous companies (probably more than most realize) with Chinese interests throughout the world.

The Chinese will build what there is a market for. Not all Chinese companies exclusively produce junk. They will make what you're willing to pay for. People in the US want cheap shit. The Chinese aren't "hampered" by our "terrible" or "oppressive" regulations so they have the freedom to cut some corners and make shit for cheap. That said there are plenty of companies that are perfectly capable of making quality goods, but you have to pay to play.

As long as there are endless lines of Wal-Martians demanding cheap shit, cheap shit will be provided.

If enthusiasts truly want something with the soul of a classic SAAB, then they need to blow the dust off of their wallets.

 

I think saab needs to start small. They fucked up by throwing the 9-5 out there with price tags of 40-60K with a backdrop of saab on the brink of loosing EVERYTHING. Nobody is going to drop that kind of money on a car with a status like that. New saab cars need to be built to be sold in the cheaper car market. Not cheap like scion cheap, but more affordable to not only the current SAAB customer market, but also beyond that. At this point they have to for sales sake. Time and economy has changed, not alot of people have deep pockets anymore. And the ones that do, certainly arent going to buy a saab. I mean look at all of us, like said before we all go and buy our saab's used because its a more affordable option for us. Alot of us that did buy new waited till it was sitting on the lot for so damn long the dealer dropped over 10k off the sticker. And this shit isnt how saab is going to survive.

A small, cheap, turbo'd 9-3, is what will save SAAB. End of story.

 

I wouldn't be getting your hopes up to see new SAABs in the US any time soon. They'll be selling them to the Chinese market to get reestablished long before we see anything here I'd think. We'll be buying a 6 year old 2011 SAAB 9-5 before we'll be able to purchase a new SAAB in the US. There is just too much competition here now to reenter the market at a low price point after spending money to develop a new platform.

 

if china were capable of selling cars here, they would've been doing so for years already. it's incredible they can't get their shit together. how many decades since they started making plans for the big usa invasion.

meanwhile, korea is rewriting the rules on how to succeed in america.

 

Yea, I stopped at a bmw dealer on the way home.

Just to give an idea of my faith in this development.

 

Y'all keep talking Product in this thread, but that really hasn't been their problem, at least in modern times. I don't know how the old V-4's and 2-strokes lined-up against the competition on a per dollar basis, but the problem Saab has had is more Value related.

The cars that they made under GM were fine in many ways, they just never got the pricing model lined-up with the actual product.

It may be that because they operate in a Socialist country that they have to charge more because their Expenses are much higher compared to the rest of the world, or it may be that they think their Marketers are actually magicians so they can do whatever they want despite what reality tells them, or it may be....

Anyway, the problem has always been Value related. Fine cars, but just not enough car for the asking price. IMO that screams poor business practices. The Engineers/Designers/Tech people historically seem to do a good, in some cases world class, and once in awhile best in class, job (well, except maybe the 900 transmissions guys lol...)

 

Y'all keep talking Product in this thread, but that really hasn't been their problem, at least in modern times. I don't know how the old V-4's and 2-strokes lined-up against the competition on a per dollar basis, but the problem Saab has had is more Value related.

The cars that they made under GM were fine in many ways, they just never got the pricing model lined-up with the actual product.

It may be that because they operate in a Socialist country that they have to charge more because their Expenses are much higher compared to the rest of the world, or it may be that they think their Marketers are actually magicians so they can do whatever they want despite what reality tells them, or it may be....

Anyway, the problem has always been Value related. Fine cars, but just not enough car for the asking price. IMO that screams poor business practices. The Engineers/Designers/Tech people historically seem to do a good, in some cases world class, and once in awhile best in class, job (well, except maybe the 900 transmissions guys lol...)

x2

 

Interesting.

With all the talk back and fourth about what NEVS will do with Saab I thought it might be a good idea to have a look at what the "old" Saab was actually planning for. This information is an extract from the business-plan made in May of 2011 by Saab when it was clear that the old business-plan was no longer valid and publishing this would not cause any damage. The documents were given to us by a source and since Saab went bankrupt they are not usable in anyway and we have been given a form of approval to reveal this page to you to better explain how Saab's management were thinking of the future.

The interesting thing is located at the bottom of the page where it is marked where the Euro 5 and Euro 6 environmental requirements are valid. The general idea as it has been explained to us was that the current GM engines would be discontinued after 2015.
The implementation period for the environmental requirements are 12 months after which the main engine of the fleet would have been the 1,6 liter BMW engine called the N18. The N18 would have been used in two configurations, as both diesel (maximum 180 hp) and gasoline / biopower (maximum 200 hp).

The phoenix architecture is built for an electric drive-train taking battery-weight distribution and space for electric engines in consideration. From what I have been told, the general idea was that the 1,6 liter engine would always be complemented with the electric rear-axel as a hybrid car.

In 2018-2019 the 1,6 and 2,0 liter engines would have been discontinued and replaced by an engine smaller than 1 liter in volume would would power an all electric system as this would most likely be the only system that would match the Euro 7 requirements.

With the 9-5 SC a V6 turbo-diesel engine was to be launched as well, perhaps not in the first year but at least before 2013 but that engine would only have lived on for about 3 years at maximum at which it would have been discontinued. This was also true for the V6 Petrol engine.

I find this plan very interesting as it shows that Saab was clearly going for smaller engines and electric systems in order to adapt to emission-requirements. We can probably assume that any other car-manufacturer are working according to a similar plan and that NEVS are also thinking in this way…

 

It's official! Spyker press release.

Spyker N.V.: NATIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE SWEDEN AB ACQUIRES THE MAIN ASSETS OF SAAB AUTOMOBILE

ZEEWOLDE, The Netherlands, 13 June 2012 - National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB to establish a new venture for development and manufacturing of electric vehicles (EVs) in Trollhättan, Sweden.

National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB (NEVS) and the Receivers of the Saab Automobile bankruptcy estate today signed a purchase agreement which covers the main assets of Saab Automobile AB, Saab Automobile Powertrain AB and Saab Automobile Tools AB. The agreement includes all outstanding shares in the property company which owns the Saab Automobile facilities in Trollhättan, Sweden. The price for the assets has not been disclosed. Saab Automobile Parts AB, as well as intellectual property rights for the Saab 9-5, owned by General Motors, are not included in the purchase agreement.

"The sale to NEVS is our most important action to realize the assets of the estate," said Anne-Marie Pouteaux, Partner, Wistrand, Hans L. Bergqvist, Partner, Delphi, Receivers in bankruptcy for the Saab Automobile estate and Kent Hägglund, DLA Nordic, Co-receiver in bankruptcy for the Saab trademark and trade name rights. "From the outset, it has been our ambition to find a comprehensive solution by the summer, so we are very pleased today, having reached this agreement."

NEVS is an international consortium formed by Japanese, Swedish and Chinese stakeholders. The company will establish a new automobile venture in Trollhättan, solely dedicated to development and manufacturing of electric vehicles (EVs).

The first model to be developed will be based on the current Saab 9-3, which will be modified for electric drive using advanced EV technology from Japan. Launch is targeted at year-end 2013/2014.

In parallel with EV conversion of the Saab 9-3, an all-new model will be developed, based on additional cutting-edge technology from Japan. Marketing and sales will be global, with an initial focus on China, projected to be the largest and most important EV market.

"China is investing heavily in developing the EV market, which is a key driver for the ongoing technology shift to reduce dependence on fossil fuels," said Kai Johan Jiang, founder and main owner of National Modern Energy Holdings Ltd, the majority shareholder of NEVS. "The Chinese can increasingly afford cars; however, the global oil supply would not suffice if they all buy petroleum-fueled vehicles. Chinese customers demand a premium electric vehicle, which we will be able to offer by acquiring Saab Automobile in Trollhättan."

NEVS aims to become a leading manufacturer of electric vehicles. Recruitment to a number of key positions in the company is in progress, and the following step is to hire skilled engineers to the Trollhättan site, in order to immediately start the product development. The development will be conducted in collaboration between Swedish, Japanese and Chinese engineers.

"I am delighted that we can build on Saab Automobile's skills in vehicle design and production to start a new future-oriented venture in Trollhättan, where world class manufacturing facilities are available," said Karl-Erling Trogen, Chairman, National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB. "We will match Swedish automobile design and manufacturing experience with Japanese EV technology and a strong presence in China. Electric vehicles powered by clean electricity are the future, and the electric car of the future will be produced in Trollhättan."

About National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB
National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB (NEVS) has been established for the purpose of acquiring the assets of the Saab Automobile bankruptcy estate. Using existing resources, and adding Japanese cutting-edge technology, NEVS plans to start a new venture in Trollhättan, Sweden, aiming to become a leading manufacturer of electric vehicles.

www.national-ev.se

 

I for one think it's a tremendously exciting development! SAAB is all about innovation, and as much as the naysayers would like to muddle on with gasoline turbos, which is 70s tech, the fact is that auto technology MUST move beyond it and fast. The Euro 5 and Euro 6 standards demand it, as does a reality based view of the planet. The principal Chinese partner has lived in Sweden for 23 years and speaks fluent Swedish, and the Japanese partner has extensive experience with cutting edge battery technology, a vital stumbling block for viable electric cars, and can integrate and leverage SAAB's ePower experience. And while some may be disappointed in the initial lack of hybrid availablility, remember that it's very easy to drop in a gas or diesel constant rpm powerplant to provide extended range, which I'd wager would be optional fairly quickly. The full torque at zero RPM of an electric motor has great enthusiast driver appeal, just ask a Tesla owner, or better yet go drive a Volt or other electric to become a true believer!! I for one can't wait for a SAAB EV!

 

this is great news - if it comes to fruition. this disjointed team thats taking over is sketchy imho.

however, i like what fisker and tesla are doing with their landmark cars. yes those two are HEAVILY subsidized and not entirely successful, but they are pioneering in scope. and now that the bigs are getting involved with plugin cars, its telling of what the landscape is to become in a decade or so.

if saab gets to engineer the electric cars and future products, it can be successful.

i mean, the volt is somehow selling a decent amount. been seeing one a day recently, which is a huge improvement from last year. i'll be honest, the volt is a cool-looking car.

 

Might not be called SAAB. Evidently Scania--who is part owner of the name--is reluctant to let the name go to a company who's product might not live up to the heritage the name brings.

 

I've got a lot of badges laying around as I'm sure you do too. That won't be a problem

 

Latest scuttlebut, aka rumor, is that M & M may get involved with production of SAAB low-carbon (read gasoline-turbo) engines and finish development of the Phoenix platform, while NEVS works on the current 9-3 based EV model. Makes a lot of sense financially, if true. No location of production of any M & M models is mentioned. This is via DI.se, as shown over at SU.

 

Truth of the matter is that sites are reporting all kinds of stuff without clarification. I've come to terms with the fact that there will probably never be another good Saab built.... Electric cars... F that.

Until I hear someone confirm otherwise (at Saab) I'm done.

 

I wonder what was said when changes to Saabs occurred in the past...

"I've come to terms with the fact that there will probably never be another good Saab built.... No more two-strokes??... F that"

"I've come to terms with the fact that there will probably never be another good Saab built.... Ford engines???... F that"

"I've come to terms with the fact that there will probably never be another good Saab built.... Half of a Triumph v8???... F that"

"I've come to terms with the fact that there will probably never be another good Saab built.... Turbo-whatzitz???... F that"