Saab Link Forums banner
38K views 128 replies 23 participants last post by  Torsten  
#1 · (Edited)
Hi, My name is Torsten and i live in the Netherlands. You can say i usually got SAAB on the brain and i decided it is time to share my current project with you. I love the classic 900 and got hold of a 900 CE, or 900GT as it's called in europe. The car was originally delivered in Germany and the German GT's came with an extra: a factory fitted sunroof. The car had little rust and seemed a good starting point.
The ideas for tuning a 900 started when i owned a 900S (low pressure turbo). I added the intercooler, the APC system and changed the primary gears from type 6 to 7. Fiddling with the APC got me 1 bar of boost and a lot of fun.... until i crashed it.
So what does the modlist look like for the GT? Well.. nothing what hasn't been done before but here we go:

Trionic 5.2 for fuel, ignition and boostcontrol
2.1 intake & head.
'85 exhaust cam, NA intake cam.
T8 low compression pistons.
TD04 turbocharger with 6cm exhaust housing.
chillcast 4 speed with type 6 primaries.
Saab 9000 2.3T Clutch and pressureplate.
Saab 9000 calipers (front)

At the moment i'm rebuilding the engine of the crashed 900S Aero for use in the GT.
My oldest son helped me dismanteling the crashed Aero:

Image


And this is the GT:
Image


In the following days i'll post pictures of the engine rebuild.
 
#4 ·
Ok so here we go.

I removed the Aero engine together with another SAABcrazy: Jerry

Image


Took it apart and did clearance checks on the bigend and smallend bearings. They where still in ok condition but i decided to replace all of them. I didn't want to run the risk with the 300 HP in mind.

Pistons and crankshaft removed:
Image


Checking clearances:
Image


And the new shiny T8 Mahle pistons waiting to get installed. (Ignore the bottle of wine:))

Image


Tomorrow more!
 
#6 ·
from what I understand T5.2 cars in europe are widely available. Also T5.2 and the later LH systems both use the hall effect crank pos sensors. No need to make up a CPS bracket mount+wheel etc....
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks and no trouble sharing it.
And keep your ideas going while reading and share them.

A while ago i brought the shortblock to the shop for new bores since the T8 pistons are first oversize. I also had a little removed from the top just to be sure of a good fit.

Image


Nice:

Image


Then i decided to give it a paintjob. I used motip engine paint in a spraycan, red of course:

Degreased, sanded and masked:

Image


Painted, and i must say i was happy with the results

Image


Image
 
#18 ·
IIRC, it's 30 +/- degrees. I'll have to check to make sure.

There's a lot of conflicting info out there about this. I've read some places that the 1990-1993 c900 is the same flywheel as the 2.3 9000, but that if you use it you need to mill 3mm off because it will be too thick to fit the larger 9.5" 9000 clutch and pp. in the available space. Also need to mill around the center because the later 9000 clutch has a larger center hub.

Then, I've read other places that they won't match up at all and that you should use the 9000 flywheel but that it needs modifications to fit. Because I couldn't seem to get a real consensus from anyone, I just went with the stock c900 flywheel and the pre-'90 2.0 9000 9" clutch and pp. That I know for sure will fit.

If anybody would know for absolutely certain, it would be Dave Kennedy, but he's not on this forum. He's on saabnet as 900Aero if you want to contact him there.
 
#20 ·
The MY90-93 2.3 flywheel will fit with no mods at all, you then use the 240mm 2.3 turbo clutch.

I had one modified last year by having a T5 trigger wheel cut into the back and then had it and the clutch balanced, been in use in my GT30 equipped c900 for a couple of years with no issues.

Image


Image


Image
 
#22 ·
OK, on the clutch, I checked with Dave K.

His reply:

It's actually a '91-'93 9000T flywheel that is a direct fit on the later c900s, but they are hard to find. They use the larger 9.5" clutch. The '90 and earlier 9000T flywheel is the same as a '90 up C-900T but the timing marks are 30 degrees off (30=0). The clutch and pressure plate from the pre-'90 cars is 9" and will bolt directly to a '90+ flywheel with no modification.

Since the '91-'93 9000T flywheels are hard to find, I just turn a dime-a-dozen early C-900 flywheel into the mid year 9000T flywheel by machining 3mm off of the face and drilling the larger pressure plate mounting and dowel holes. There's also some machining around the outside of the flywheel to crank bolts that has to be done to fit the larger clutch hub. Then you've got a '91-'93 9000T flywheel but with the timing marks in the right place! These flywheels are already lighter just because of the minus 3mm to make room for the larger pressure plate so it's a smart upgrade.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Now look.... above is the final writeup on upgrading flywheels on a C900, thanks :signs065:. I already had my flywheel (from the S aero) machined and the surface redone. The weight went down form 8.9Kgs to 7.7Kgs.
With the knowledge i have now are the options: look for a 91-93 2.3T Flywheel or go with ny existing one and use the pre 90 9000 2.0T pressureplate and disk. Machine a old C900 flywheel to 9000 90-93 spec. Or go for a non saab solution.
We'll see.

pictures of the flywheel (stock C900, 90-93).

Image


Metal removed:
Image


Image


I hope the weight reduction compensates somewhat for the lower compression ratio.......
 
#26 ·
I got the 9000 2.0 turbo clutch in it. No problem with this until it says BANG!!
The springs where shot out the disk.

My advice for the clutch is: go for the 9000 2.0 Turbo. I,am not sure why but it was holding more torque than the 2.3 i got now. Maybe the clutch assembly is stronger..!?

And maybe a 2.3 disk (when it fits the 9000 2.0 clutch) you can make the strongest (stock) combination possible when that is truth.

I still got the 9000 clutch so maybe i try it out.

also, i think your piston/head combo will run very low compression, the 2.1 head drops comp a lot as is, never mind with lower comp pistons to boot,, i feel like the car will be very laggy off boost
Yes that is true but good for gearbox. It also gets a big smile on you face above the 4000 rpm,s till 7000 rpm,s with a lot of pre ignition. The engine sounds like angels singing (screaming)!!:cool:
The power keeps building up all the way to 7000 rpm,s. You never thing: now i need to shift, no you think: i stay i fourth and pull it to 7000 rpm,s resulting in a speed of 220 kmph :twisted:...:cop:.

Ooww yes i already did you the Lucas manual, forgot it and indeed time is flying and another year is past!
 
#27 · (Edited)
I got the 9000 2.0 turbo clutch in it. No problem with this until it says BANG!!
The springs where shot out the disk.

My advice for the clutch is: go for the 9000 2.0 Turbo. I,am not sure why but it was holding more torque than the 2.3 i got now. Maybe the clutch assembly is stronger..!?
!
Strange the experiences you have with the torque. But the clutch you use is a 2.3i? Shouldn't that be a 2.3T?
Anyway i made up my mind, the 9000 2.0T clutch will do for now.
I'm also on the lookout for an older c900 flywheel for modifying purposes to fit the 91-93 2.3T clutch assembly, as described by turbocon86/Dave kennedy. Thanks guys :thumbup:
 
#30 ·
Besides small end bearings i also wanted new bushings in the conrods. This proved to be difficult for a number of reasons:
First: I only could get hold of the bushings via the saab dealer and they were not cheap.
Second: in contrary to the small and bigend bearings these bushings need to be pressed in the rod an then machined to exactly fit the wrist pins.
Third: these bushings do not very often need replacing so get advice on the wear before you decide to put new ones in.

new bushing in:
Image


old bushing:

Image


There is also a very small difference in T8 wristpins vs. T16 wristpins. the diameter of a T16 wristpin is a little bit larger so the pistons needed machining to accept the T16 pins. I also decided to have a small hole drilled in the piston (just like in the T16 pistons) to ensure oiling of the wristpin.

Image


Image


I discussed piston design with MMOE on saabscene. He told me that in the T8 pistons the wristpin itself didn't move. Only the conrod moved around the pin. In teh T16 pistons the pin moved in the piston and in the rod bushing.
 
#31 ·
Right so i got the clutch and gaskets. Last couple of days it was freezing so i got no work done. This weekend it's a little warmer and i hope i can find the time.

9000 2.0T clutch:

Image


gaskets:
Image


I gave the T5 harness some thought. I got a spare connector and i am thinking about making a totally new harness. I did the same when i made my own APC harness in the past so i didn't expect any problems. But when I tried to get the little metal connectors out of the main connector none came loose. anyone a suggestion?
Connector:

Image
 
#62 ·
I gave the T5 harness some thought. I got a spare connector and i am thinking about making a totally new harness. I did the same when i made my own APC harness in the past so i didn't expect any problems. But when I tried to get the little metal connectors out of the main connector none came loose. anyone a suggestion?
Connector:

Image
If you still are looking for a better way to remove these, this tool works great:
TT3KT, Set, Terminal Tool

You can empty the trionic ecu connector in a couple minutes with everything intact. Also, if you look on the site they sell each one of those tools in the kit individually, the blue one has what you need to do those connectors.
 
#32 ·
I have run into this problem time and time again. I have a buddy that has the actual Saab pinout tools in order to remove them. There are other companies that make pinout tools, I have been looking for awhile trying to find the best/most compatible ones without much luck.

I have gotten them out with small screwdrivers but most connectors I have ended up destroying trying to get those buggers out of there.
 
#33 ·
The micro screwdriver technique has worked for me in the past. You need to slide them in the little rectangular channels above and below each pin. The pins have little springy prongs that catch on the plastic housing so you can't pull the pins out the bottom. Push those little tabs in with the screwdrivers and they should slide out. You could probably make a tool by grinding down a pair of tweezers to fit in the channels if you had a mind to.
 
#35 ·
Exactly what i tried, i grinded down small pliers, used micro's and common pins but with no luck. I don't get it really cause with the apc connector i had no issues. I think i go visit a BOSCH servicecenter tomorrow and find out if i can use their special tools. Will post later.
 
#36 ·
late last night i solved the connector issues. The thing is i just didn't apply enough force to get them out. So here is the way to do it without the special tools:

for the small connectors: use commom pins:
Image


for the larger ones i used nails from a air tacker:

Image


Now i only have to find the exact type of connectors SAAB used. If anyone could help me with this. In this specific connector they where supplied by AMP. Typenumbers would be very helpfull.
 
#37 · (Edited)
#38 · (Edited)
You can look around here:

AMP Connectors/Terminals

They have the amp connectors for the Porsche which Saab also used. Can't tell what the exact size terminal is that you're looking for. I used the boots they have for the amp connectors and they have held up well.

Found this site also:

TYCO ELECTRONICS / AMP > Automotive Connectors Distributor | Uniquip, Page 1
Thanks,

I also did some research in the datasheets of AMP products. It turns out that the 2 types in the trionic connector are known as:

Micro timer 2 series : small ones
964275-2 Product Details - TE
Junior-Power-Timer (JPT) Series: big ones
927779-6 Product Details - TE

It seems to me that these names are an industry standard. There is a variety in alloys available which is reflected in the price and for crimping, you need different tools.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Today i found some time to work on the engine. The rods are connected to the new pistons, yay!!

Image


The wristpin is retained by two round springs. It was a bit fiddely to put those back and here is my approach: Put the spring in on one end then use your fingers to push the rest in then use a socket to push it in it's final spot.

Image


Image


I also cleaned these covers and fitted new crankshaft oil seals.
Note CPS bracket on the oilpump cover. Trionic 5.2 uses the same sensor as the EZK equipped cars (N/A injection).

Image


Image


I hope tonight i find some time to put the crank in the shortblock and then maybe tomorrow the pistons?
Anyway have a nice weekend!
 
#41 ·
Pistons are in, with a twist....

I messed up big time by breaking the oil scraper ring on the number 3 piston:cussing: It broke while compressing the rings. So the advice is: keep your eyes on top of the piston while compressing....
Since the pistons where NOS and first oversize i wasn't sure if rings where still available. But i got one!
Pictures:

Broken Ring:
Image


Piston compressor:
Image


Image


They're In!!

Image


Next will be the gearbox.
 
#43 ·
When i started this project i had the idea of using a 4 speed. I monitored the dutch Saabforum classifieds of and on and one day someone offered 4 speed out of a '79 99 carb with low milage. What the guy asked was very reasonable so i took the chance and bought it unseen. Couple of weeks later i collected the box and while putting it in the trunk with the seller it seemed heavier than the 5 speeds i know. While driving home i kept going over reasons why.... Then i thought, could it be the alloy?? Could it be a chillcast?? Well first thing i did at home was checking nrs. and it was!! I got so lucky:)

There are two type and i haven't got the strongest. It's the one without the ribs, 871239:

Image


First thing needed was changing the inner drivers to the newer type:

New type driver got one ring, old type two rings:

Image


I got curious about the state of the gears so i took out the diff:

No wear on the teeth.
Image


I haven't seen that much boxes on the inside but this really looked good. So i decided to dig a little deeper and took out the layshaft:

Image


Doing that results in dropping the layshaft gearset on the bottom of the box. Next: remove the primary gearcase and you're at the hard of it.

Dropped layshaft gearset can just be seen through the elliptical opening:
Image


Removed primary case:

Image


Layshaft gearset in good condition: no wear on the teeth.

Image


Synchros like new:

Image


I'm very happy with the box.
I'm still considering replacing the pinion bearing house with a chillcast bearinghouse from a parts box. But that means taking the 4 speed further apart... Never done that. Besides i don't have the special tool to measure the pinion wheel height. Any suggestions/ideas?