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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well if it’s any consolation I happen to like “playing” around with NA cars…
Currently building a 1988 900 S with a 16V NA and a 5spd.
I grabbed the car because my daily “beater” known as Putt Putt is pushing the 300,000 mark and is getting tired. I have everything to bring Putt Putt back to life but it’s a 1986 900 base and really wanted power windows and a sunroof.
Putt Putt is a 8V NA 5spd and is still putting along on her original headgasket and original (yes original) clutch…….
The new 900 NA dubbed Putt Putt II (so much for originality) has only 110,000 miles on it and has a lot going for it. It has a Sport Exhaust and I got it from a guy who was very meticulous about keeping the car in tip top shape.
It has a brand new Saab 16V head with only 20,000 miles on it.
To date we have begun to add a few things to it.
Indiglow gauges
MSS 16V header
Custom programmed 16V NA chip (no more redline)
Pioneer CD head unit
Short shifter
Autometer oil pressure, water temp gauges.
Side vent covers.

As soon as I get it into my shop (someday) we will be installing
SPG springs
SPG panels painted white.
Big bore throttle body
Bigger injectors (not sure how big yet)
Carbon Fiber door inserts, dash inserts and misc. pieces.
Factory foglamps
Airflow front bumper (haven’t found rear one yet)
Custom black headliner
Changing over to black trim.
NO2 wet system
Then I am stuck between rims and tires…..
I have a set of 16” five spokes (aftermarket)
A set of SPG wheels with 225/50/15’s
Or a set of 16” Aero’s…..
 

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wow man, i really like that NA saab. keep up the good work.

i have an 87 SPG and a NA 98 NG900 thats my only NA ;) but i have been working on the engine a little. sometime in the future i would like to get a portand polish. but right now i am having a oil problem i'm leaking from somewhere. but, anyways, keep the pics comin!
 

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Very nice Rhich! :D 8) ... Can't wait to see and hear more about it! :D :p .... lol, so you want nitrous eh? heh... :shock: :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Want?
Carl was here the other day..... ask him what he saw between the seats (and we're not talking shifters) :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Finally got the header in......
Although MSS insisted it was "drop in" :roll: I ended up doing modifications to the motor mount and the inner lip on the frame, plus had to make a new bracket to install the trans dip stick.
 

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yup that's usually how drop in's work, you have to drop more money and time into them than planned...

i love those saabs rhich, looks good

~justin
 

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I've got some WAY better headers for you. They're long tube headers, and for me they bolted straight in. I have to get rid of them along with my car. They appear to be made by S&S. They're great for torque. I'll try to find a pic. I have one on the other comp. They aren't in as good shape as the MSS ones, and since you already have those, no point in swapping. But they're a great set.

Once with just headers and a muffler (I also have a catback from Swedish Dynamics that I need to get rid of, but it's pretty stupid looking.) I got the car up to 140 mph! :eek: It also sounds soooo awesome with the headers. They're true equal length and each header tube is about 3-4 feet long!

Unfortunately the car itself no longer drives. Got a C900 turbo 1989 and a Viggen though, so I'm well to do with getting rid of this old one. 2.1L engine is miiiine the byoootch. Gonna use the cyllinder head, intake, and short ratio n/a tranny from it in the 1989 when I get the chance. (The 91-93 naturally aspirated Saabs have the shortest gear ratios of any 5 speed C900. They also have the strongest gearbox as the casing is the same as the turbo models, and the 91-93 turbos were the strongest.)

Anyhow ... gotta dig up pics either today or tomorrow. Will post em when I do.

Ciao
Adrian~
 

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Got the pic now. Enjoy!







Shame she doesn't run anymore. Cheaper to buy another than rebuild both engine and tranny. Oh well ...

Adrian~
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Funky looking header….
Couple of things though, what happened to the tranny dipstick tube?
Why are those exhaust studs so long…..is there any reason why the studs are red?
Also from a performance point of view and of course being a mechanical engineer that header is completely designed wrong….
One rule for any exhaust removal is to keep the manifold as short as possible, it is very important not to cool the exhaust gases until they are away from the motor, usually the optimum way was to determine proper tube length and collector location is by gathering data and formulating where the exhaust gas at the predetermined power RPM started to cool. In the old days this was done by slipping a tube over the four header primary tubes and burning the slipped pipe, then you would measure the slipped over pipe and make your collector that long based on where the gases began to cool.
Headers are also designed for different applications, you can notice this on top fuel dragsters with just four tubes and no collectors or dragsters that run of racing gas that actually run a collector for proper tube length, longer tubes produce low end torque while shorter headers produce high end power…..This theory of designing a header that works determines the primary tubes diameter. Gases can flow at an average speed of over 350 ft/sec, but the pressure wave travels at the speed of sound (and is dependent on gas temperature).

For more detail on the specifics of header theory read 'The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems' by Dr. Phillip H. Smith'.

So looking at your "perfect" header you will see one, the tubes are going forward towards the front of your car and towards incoming cooler air and then bend back to exit or to the collector, so you are actually cooling your exhaust before it has a chance to be "extracted" which will cause exhaust gas turbulence and hence it far from being a header that works correctly.
Second the header primary tubes are staying more in the general area of the tranny which can cause "heat soak" of the tranny case which makes the tranny operate at a higher temperature….
So if you ask me………your "WAY BETTER" header was not designed correctly and does more harm then good…..
 

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My WAY BETTER header also extracts the scavenging pulses at a USEFUL rpm ... which yours does not.

I have also read numerous articles on engine and header design. In fact if I can somehow find it, I have an entire book discussing it. Your short-unequal length headers not only are not tuned at the right length, but not even at the same length, which is essential for keeping each cyllinder in tune with the next.

I have never seen a professional, winning racecar that used shorty, unequal length headers unless necessitated due to lack of space for a long tube design. The headers are on my car are perfect for a 4,000-7,000 RPM band, and any loss to heat is easily soved by a ceramic coating.

The headers in your pic would be lucky to pick up even the second weaker returning scavenging wave at the RPM a Saab is turning.

And you can quote all the articles you want, but I play out on the racetrack and know what actually works. Short unequal length headers on a naturally aspirated engine are simply not as effective.

Here are a couple pics of our winning Crossle racecar:





The headers are one of the few things not regulated by the GCR in Formula Ford. If there were any benefit to shorter headers, people would have used them and won with them. Hasn't happened. Feel free to explain why.

Heat loss is important, but not so much as scavenging length. And the headers you showed a picture of clearly were not meant to use the scavenging principle at all. At least no more than the stock manifolds. Which isn't saying much for them ...

... oh and the 2.1L engines didn't have the oil distick tube. These headers were a direct swap. They do however fit cars with the dipstick tube, as the car I got them off of had one.

Adrian~
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, your right I’m wrong…. My shorty header as you call it happens to be “equal length” tubes… But you know everything…
I hold also an SCCA competitors license, I raced NHRA before you were born….
I was class winner in NHRA two years in a row…. I ran a 10:98:01 in 1987 and a 10:80:00 in 1988….
I currently crew for two SCCA teams, my shop is well know for it’s Stage I, II & III 16V heads I also have a full restoration shop that specializes in Saabs only….
I am an A.S.E certified master technician and also am a Saab Certified Technician….
Along with that I an a CfmE, P.E.
But I guess these credentials don’t hold a candle to your over sprayed greasy 16V piss poor designed header……….. So be it…..
By the way, I meant the dip stick/filler tube for the tranny, but I bet with your super powers you can check and fill your over heated transmission without it…….
 

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Thats enough of this thread :roll:
 
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