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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering where the difference lies? Did they crank up the Boost some or what? Also, what are the cheapest most effective mods I can do? I'm engaged and paying for almost the entire wedding so I can't go dumping much money right now into the car. I also don't want to hurt my gas mileage either as I drive a fair amount. I was thinking of adjusting the waste-gate to get some more PSI, an open element airfilter & maybe having some larger plumbing made to help move more air. Any thoughts/suggestions? Thanks! :D
 

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Some would say nothing. Your mileage (ok, HP) may vary, but in many cases on the viggen the b235r puts out at least that much, despite it's 230hp rating. i watched stock viggens put 210-220hp to the wheels at the 2003 SOC. You may want to start off with a dyno run to see where you're at.

Also do to the complexity of T7, you don't want to start messing around with hardware mods, without the software to back it up. You won't get much more power (though you can increase responsiveness) unless you do some ECU work. You may want to consider a filter and a stage 1 upgrade.

Do it right the first time and do it once.
 

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Many people swear by many brands.....

I have had very good experiences with SQR which you can get through

http://www.jakstollperformance.com

You can also go for BSR from www.genuinesaab.com

I have had the opportunity to meet Frank Stromqist (SQR) and see the first hand results of his tuning. Jak is a US distributor and a performance guru, I can't recommend that route enough.

Also Nick from genuinesaab has always been very helpful and good guy to deal with. I don't have any first hand experience with BSR software.
 

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Look around carefully before you jump into an ECU mod though and decide on the power output, torque and additional equipment you will need to install on your car. Once you decide all these factors then you can make an informed decision as to which tuner you will use. Almost forgot the most important one and that is BUDGET. How much do you want to spend?? With the current chip tuners you spend alot of $$$$$ for little gain (in most cases) so pick wisely here as it makes a difference.

Maptun
Nordic
SQR

All of those companies do tuning and offer packages to go with the chip tune. In my opinion you should look into helping your car breath better with a good K&N type drop in filter or an intake w/cone filter and a good exhaust system first before you start messing with the ECU. An engine that can breath will only benefit that much more when you do finally chip tune it and you will be able to purchase a higher stage tune at that time. These are just my opinions and someone else on here will post a contrary opinion I am sure but listen to everyone and then make the most informed decision based on eveyones experiences and knowledge. :D
 

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I agree wholeheartedly, make a final plan first and do it once. If you want to go stage 3 do it all at once. Definitely don't put on software without the supporting hardware, and frankly with T7 I would be concerned about putting on hardware without the proper software to run it (on many turbos you can get away with opening it up piece with the hardware (intercooler, intake, cat back, dp) one at a time and then finishing with the software to match it. Some T7 people would say this is dangerous as it may confuse the factory system.
 

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What kind of problems occur? I understand why it would be beneficial to by a stage kit because the software is tested with the hardware but does it really matter if the brands are different? Say I wanted a custom 3in exhuast with a magnaflow muffler, would it make a difference with the Nordic software because it is advertised to run w/ Ferrita. Also, I have heard of the custom SQR tuning in Boston but if I cant do that where/who else in the country can do this?
 

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Ok thats not where the issue come up. The issue comes in where you buy an new racing intercooler and a 3"DP and 3" exhaust and slap it on your car. Ok this sounds great but the T7 may not adapt properly and may give you issues with boost and with cutting your power based on some non standard flow and performance gains on the stock untuned ECU. I for one do not whole heartadly agree that the T7 will cut you off at the knees with out having the ECU tune to support these changes. I think the T7 will adapt up to the point that the software is set to do from the factory (which I am told by SAAB employees that it's 20% over stated stock HP numbers). If you buy a custom 3" exhaust and magnaflow muffler then it will be just the same as buying that Nordic chip and ferrita exhaust. Same goes for the intake, down pipe or anything else you put on that is part of the stages listed from a chip tuner. In the word of an old chicken commercial "Parts is Parts" for the most part. So you do not have ot be sucked up by the stages that come with all the bolt ons and will run you $2000. Do the exhaust at a local shop (for $350) if you want and save the extra $450 you would have spen on Ferrita exhaust as it is probably not that much better or worse (+/- a few HP here and there). Just know that when you order your ECU if you order the one that requires all these additional bolt ons you will need to have them in place when the ECU goes in or you will not get the full benefit of your new ECU and may have daily operational issues with fuel mileage or general operation. I hope this clears it up somewhat for you.
 

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Thank you for the input and Im sorry if I sound naive. I understand the Tronic 7 adjusts to continuously put put the same power regaurdless of altitude. What I dont understand is why the engine wont improve efficiency with certain mods. Why wont a freely flowing air filter help? I put a K&N in my car and I cant say it hurt, or helped for that matter. Do people have solid proof that hardware mods can do more damage than good because if Im not mistaking Ricot83 has only hardware mods and has severely improved his HP. It would be nice to go slowly as money allows then buy an entire kit and maybe not get exactly what you want.
 

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Thats why I say that I don't agree with the Trionic being a cloed in no modding beast!! I think that free flowing exhaust and intake can do wonders for a T7 car. There is no conclusive proof that is does either hurt or help it. Ricot's car is a good example of why I think the T7 has adaptable limits since his car is putting down 30HP more than what is expected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the input guys/Steve! :) I guess I'll baby step into it starting w/ an open element filter followed by an exhaust (are there any resonably priced?? ex. $300 range?) and down pipe before tackling the ECU route. Especially since that seems to be quite expensive!
 

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I would only be interested in hardware mods dyno charts vs unmodded charts, because t7 will put down more then expected without mods. I don't think there is a big danger of doing hardware first, mostly that you may not get the benefits until the software matches. If it were my t7, I would do all the hardware right before frank came to town and then I'd go meet him at automotion in Boston and get a custom program.

RCM- I don't remember seeing your car, though I drank my far share of Scotch there....I was driving a green 92 9KT with charcoal race wheels.
 

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For the exhaust check out a few local places in your area and get quotes for custom exhaust with a Magnaflow type muffler. Out here where I am they want an average of $335 to $400 to do a cat back system for me. AS for the DP you will pay through the nose right now for one that you can get from any of the current vendors out there. I would wait until MPPerformance does a 9-5 DP and then pick one up with racing cat. With the filter you have a few choices between K&N and a few others out there. They are all about the same for the power arena you are in and should net the same results. I persoanlly use a K&N Drop in filter on a modded air box and it works well. The cone filters will give you more turbo noise (woosh, woosh) than the drop in will. Also a very good upgarde is a Forge or Hyperboost Recirulating Boost Valve (BPV). The forge valve will allow you to sustain your boost at a steadier rate and will make it a little sharper and crisper for you all for $100 or so. So for $500 you can have exhaust, filter and Forge BPV in your car and you will be ready for any ECU swap you decide to do in the future. I would wait on your ECU tune for a while and just get focused on the breathing of the motor first.

Forge Valve
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/vehicles.asp?cat=saab&product=FMDVS006

K&N Drop In Filter for 2002-2005
http://www.knfilterchargers.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-2455
 

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First your question: Hp difference between 9-5 aero models ( 230 hp vs. 250 hp ) is made by SW only ( SW = software ). Difference is in practise quite academic, though ( marginal differencies at acceleration times ).

And then some off topic. What comes to power increases in general, 9-5 aero ( and viggen as well ) are very close fo their HW limits. This concerns especially fuelling ( fuel injectors ) and turbo ( MHI-TD04HL-15T with 5cm2 turbine housing ). So, if you want to put some serious power on 9-5 aero, lots of HW components and T7 SW must be upgraded.

If someone claims, that 9-5 aero can leave 300 hp just by modifying SW and with new freeflow exhaust, one should be very suspicious on these claims. This kind of power is just peak power, and it has no value on real road conditions. After 1-2 seconds at WOT, you've 30 - 40 hp less...

For leaving practical 300 hp, one should for example: change intercooler for the one with better efficiency, change turbo ( too restrictive turbine housing ), rise fuel pressure or change fuel injectors, change intake pipe, change whole exhaust to 3''-one with race-cat and modify T7 SW. Compare this list to Hirsch's 305 hp packet, and one can see, that they have done almost all of those. This is why those 305 hp exist on road conditions as well, making ones car quite quick on the road. Those HW modifications help 9-5 aero to cope with excessive heat generated by those 300 hp.

To summarize, don't believe all that marketing hype. Lots of mods ( both HW and SW ) are needed for gaining some real power increases out of 9-5 aero. By changing SW only, one can only put some additional torque to low - and midrange, nothing else. :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wow, we've got some pretty informative people on this board! I guess my 9-5 is a little more complex then just cranking up the boost like we did on my buddy's 88 SPG!! So bottom line is this?...HW (exhaust, hi-flow filter, etc.) won't really pay off w/out the SW upgrades? I'm not looking for a 300HP monster but just some increased mid-range for passing & hi-speed (75-85mph) free-way cruising which is what most of my driving is.
 
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