Can you post documentation of that? I pissed in a co-workers Wheaties the other morning when she said she was going to trade in her '97 CSE 5-spd toward something new, and I told her that only automatics qualified.They raised it to 21 combined
Lots of cars quailfy now.
All business up front, party in the back?I don't have a mullet. Its just a little longer in the back.
Very well said, my thoughts exactly!Besides the fact that, as a tax payer, I'm helping to buy a bunch of undeserving jerks brand new cars while I'm stuck with my old one because I was moderately frugal in my choice of daily transportation in the first place... Before even beginning to put pencil to paper, the whole "save the planet" argument doesn't even get close to passing the smell test.
It really takes a tremendous amount of energy to produce a new car. Think about all the parts and pieces. The electricity that smelts the metals. The petroleum that makes the plastics. The impact of all the people spending energy to get to work and assemble things. The energy used to transport all these pieces from all over the world. And the old cars and the absolute asinine waste of perfectly good engines that could be *gasp* recycled and used again in the true sense of conservation. And over what time period will the very incremental increases in fuel efficiency recover even a fraction of that energy spent to produce the new car?
As an engineer the whole thing stinks and I'm really disgusted at how gloriously righteous the government has made it appear to purchase a new car in the name of environmentalism.
wait wait wait.....You're an Obama fan, but are enraged about a program he dreams up like this??Yeah, the whole Cash for Clunkers system is very misleading on the public. People think that they're getting a gift or something when they find out they can trade-in their $2000 S10 pickup for $4500 towards a new vehicle. Like others have said, we, the taxpayers, pick up the entire tab in the end. I'm an Obama fan, but it really enrages me when I think about the program. I know that saving GM is a high priority, but we, the public taxpayers, ALREADY bailed them out. Now, months later, the government installs the cash for clunkers rebate system and guess what, we pay YET again. It's PATHETIC how many gifts and bailouts car makers need to get to turnover inventory. Meanwhile, while the companies finally move cars and people put on their "I just got the deal of a lifetime" grin, we'll be seeing increased taxes for the next 20 years. If companies can't survive and sell cars, let them have their business death. Business isn't a charity and the forces of supply and demand will always rule. The government and the source of it's power, us the people, shouldn't have to bail companies out that do things the wrong way. All it does is disguise problems and prolong the inevitable.
Finally, while I hate the program with an intense passion, I admit it's clever in the fact that it takes an incredible amount of used cars off of the road. With the used car population decreasing at a staggering rate, we'll see less used/reman'd parts to keep other cars on the road, less demand for older model car parts, and buyers will have diminishing car purchase alternatives.
Read the article posted above, with particular attention to the part about the imminent end to the recession and good prospects for growth.So with this $3B clunkers program, we will now have positive GDP like Germany and France? nice........that sure was easy.
The infrastructure stimulus was $27 billion, in part to fix some of those ancient crumbling interstates, spread among all the states.Know what "Government Intervention" was in the 1930's?
"Hey you without a job! Want to put food on the table and not starve? Take this shovel and go build highways & dams."
not
"Hey you with that 15-year old SUV that has nothing wrong, and many people would kill for....want your neighbor to pay for your new car? Go see your friendly car dealer today."
The government gave people JOBS, which turned into EARNED TAX INCOME, not spoon-fed, sit-on-the-couch-watching-Springer, eating-Doritos handouts. Sure, the govermnet paid straight out of the taxpayers pockets to help climb out of the hole, but know what it got in return, the Eisenhower Interstate System, and MANY other huge construction projects that we all use every day.
I. THE BROKEN WINDOW
Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James B., when his careless son happened to break a square of glass? If you have been present at such a scene, you will most assuredly bear witness to the fact, that every one of the spectators, were there even thirty of them, by common consent apparently, offered the unfortunate owner this invariable consolation - "It is an ill wind that blows nobody good. Everybody must live, and what would become of the glaziers if panes of glass were never broken?"
Now, this form of condolence contains an entire theory, which it will be well to show up in this simple case, seeing that it is precisely the same as that which, unhappily, regulates the greater part of our economical institutions.
Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier's trade - that it encourages that trade to the amount of six francs - I grant it; I have not a word to say against it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that which is seen.
But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the encouragement of industry in general will be the result of it, you will oblige me to call out, "Stop there! your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen."
It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another. It is not seen that if he had not had a window to replace, he would, perhaps, have replaced his old shoes, or added another book to his library. In short, he would have employed his six francs in some way, which this accident has prevented.
Let us take a view of industry in general, as affected by this circumstance. The window being broken, the glazier's trade is encouraged to the amount of six francs; this is that which is seen. If the window had not been broken, the shoemaker's trade (or some other) would have been encouraged to the amount of six francs; this is that which is not seen.
And if that which is not seen is taken into consideration, because it is a negative fact, as well as that which is seen, because it is a positive fact, it will be understood that neither industry in general, nor the sum total of national labour, is affected, whether windows are broken or not.
Now let us consider James B. himself. In the former supposition, that of the window being broken, he spends six francs, and has neither more nor less than he had before, the enjoyment of a window.
In the second, where we suppose the window not to have been broken, he would have spent six francs on shoes, and would have had at the same time the enjoyment of a pair of shoes and of a window.
Now, as James B. forms a part of society, we must come to the conclusion, that, taking it altogether, and making an estimate of its enjoyments and its labours, it has lost the value of the broken window.
When we arrive at this unexpected conclusion: "Society loses the value of things which are uselessly destroyed;" and we must assent to a maxim which will make the hair of protectionists stand on end - To break, to spoil, to waste, is not to encourage national labour; or, more briefly, "destruction is not profit."
What will you say, Monsieur Industriel -- what will you say, disciples of good M. F. Chamans, who has calculated with so much precision how much trade would gain by the burning of Paris, from the number of houses it would be necessary to rebuild?
I am sorry to disturb these ingenious calculations, as far as their spirit has been introduced into our legislation; but I beg him to begin them again, by taking into the account that which is not seen, and placing it alongside of that which is seen. The reader must take care to remember that there are not two persons only, but three concerned in the little scene which I have submitted to his attention. One of them, James B., represents the consumer, reduced, by an act of destruction, to one enjoyment instead of two. Another under the title of the glazier, shows us the producer, whose trade is encouraged by the accident. The third is the shoemaker (or some other tradesman), whose labour suffers proportionably by the same cause. It is this third person who is always kept in the shade, and who, personating that which is not seen, is a necessary element of the problem. It is he who shows us how absurd it is to think we see a profit in an act of destruction. It is he who will soon teach us that it is not less absurd to see a profit in a restriction, which is, after all, nothing else than a partial destruction. Therefore, if you will only go to the root of all the arguments which are adduced in its favour, all you will find will be the paraphrase of this vulgar saying - What would become of the glaziers, if nobody ever broke windows?
We've been stockpiling loonies to let them loose on the open marketit's an economic benefit because the money comes from the Chinese and you'll never have to pay them back![]()
No. That assertion ignores the fundamental way money flows through economic strata. A car sitting in a parking lot for 10 months isn't generating income for the company, which can't pay its suppliers, which can't pay its employees, who can't buy clothes, tanning sessions, aluminum siding, chicken legs, wood flooring, houses, lawmowers, etc...Arguing about unsold inventory is absurd. Of course the cars were unsold before they were sold! Regardless they would have ALWAYS sold, a week later, a month later, the same day without any such corruption of the market.
Global warming for its end is a socialist-driven hoax with the aim of enslaving humanity![]()
...which, perhaps, is why no one is saying that.Destroying anything cannot increase value. To say so is absurd.
go for it! The Bank of Canada has mentioned that they might do that themselves as the high CAD/USD ratio is worrying for exports... however the BoC hasn't done forex dumping in many years, and shouldn't since it is too ineffective...We've been stockpiling loonies to let them loose on the open market
No, it's not coming from the sky. It's coming from anticipated revenues.The problem with your argument is that you are saying the 4 500$ is coming from the sky. IT is not. The money is a "real" thing produced by the labour of the country. The money is coming out of your pocket no matter what is done - if they run the printing press, inflation will eat it out of your savings. If they run taxes, it will be done more directly. Via debt, which so far seems to be the prerogative of recent administrations, this will be taken from your taxes and your children's.
This is provably wrong. Without massive stimulus programs during the 1930s, we'd be eating dirt pies and speaking German. We spent steadily to emerge from the Great Depression, then got cold feet in 1937 and abruptly stopped...and nearly triggered another recession.This is the main reason why any kind of "stimulus" is only damaging to the economy, and most importantly to the taxpayer, on the long term.
...and emerging from recession. Please see the above articles quoting Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke.One need only look at the United States, with the biggest "stimulus" package, and... still in recession.
Uh, no.Germany and France did virtually nothing (with the exception of their own "clunker" legislation), and have exited.
Canada was forced into "stimulating" but did very little, practically none of that small amount was spent, and Canada may well have exited the recession already.
Again...more libertarian boilerplate.There is no better way the several billion dollars of this program could be spent, in terms of the health of the economy, and indeed, in the welfare of the country and its citizens, than for every penny of it to have been spent by the man who earned it.