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I appreciate the help threads, I appreciate the give-and-take smart-ass ribbing that goes on, I appreciate the NSFW threads that are labeled as such. I try to avoid the threads that degenerate into drama filled character assassinations. If they are in their own thread that I can choose to ignore--fine I guess. To each his own. I just don't like when good threads get corrupted by the bullshit. It's OK to disagree with someone on a topic. That's how the best info rises to the top. But state your opinion politely with a valid argument without resorting to mean-spirited personal attacks or calling people out for the sake of debasing them in front of everyone. Save that for PMs, or take a break and cool off. My 2c FWIW.
 

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My $0.01 after paying for gas, based on other forums, there should be a bear pit, where two parties can go in and have it out, and the technical forums become that, technical forums.

General Discussion - This would be the "free speech/wild Internet" portion where general topics are discussed and assumed not serious, other topics would be place that you can surf from work that would be safe, routine topics.

For Sale, Trade WTB - Many other sites require up to 100 valid posts, not one word replies, before you can post. Others are one bad transaction and you get the ban hammer and both parties can present their case to a mod(s) and they make the decision. There is a feedback thread where others can comment on the transaction in question.

Technical content - Encourage Saabers to post more technical content, even if its routine. Most of the problems seen on the older cars, have been seen by someone else before and no sense reinventing the wheel.
 

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^ I like the bear pit idea.

I've been here for about a year and a half. I'm not in a position to opine on the "demise" of things - I just haven't been here long enough. The reason why I joined here was really in response to the drop off in activity at Saabnet.

Saabnet will probably never really go away, they have a real asset in the content that has been built there over the years. But the infrastructure and the current content flow is really terrible.

TSL is much more fun, there is a lot of drama, and there is some real knowledge that gets exchanged. There is a large portion of OT stuff, which actually surprises me. I am surprised when someone posts an "Off Topic" thread that is truly Off Topic; jk88, your Roku thread is an interesting example. For some people, Off Topic discussions like that are an asset - and one not available on Saabnet. For me, I don't come to a Saab forum to ask TV questions (though jk88, I think that thread was productive).

I don't see a lot of areas for improvement at the moment. I think things are going quite well. If people feel strongly about getting the trolling out of here, fine, I don't feel strongly. Maybe there should be a "public opinion banhammer" option for those situations!

I would try to get feedback, to the extent you want it, from the guys like Tweek and BurnSide who were very active, then there was some sort of flareup and they went away. Maybe you already have gotten more feedback than you want. To those of us in the peanut gallery, its hard to know what happened, but they are people who once were happy here, became unhappy, and left. Most of the rest of us, I believe, are pretty happy.

Good thread idea BTW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Last 4 posts are exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks gents.

My $0.01 after paying for gas, based on other forums, there should be a bear pit, where two parties can go in and have it out, and the technical forums become that, technical forums.

General Discussion - This would be the "free speech/wild Internet" portion where general topics are discussed and assumed not serious, other topics would be place that you can surf from work that would be safe, routine topics.

For Sale, Trade WTB - Many other sites require up to 100 valid posts, not one word replies, before you can post. Others are one bad transaction and you get the ban hammer and both parties can present their case to a mod(s) and they make the decision. There is a feedback thread where others can comment on the transaction in question.

Technical content - Encourage Saabers to post more technical content, even if its routine. Most of the problems seen on the older cars, have been seen by someone else before and no sense reinventing the wheel.
Agree.

I think there should be the freedom to joke around in the technical forums, but that area should be primarily technical.

I think off topic should be free to roam into the chaotic... that's what it's there for. It's the hockey fight portion of the forum, in a sense that you can leave it all out there (be it angst or humor) and not take it to the other sections. Recess, if you will.

^ I like the bear pit idea.

I've been here for about a year and a half. I'm not in a position to opine on the "demise" of things - I just haven't been here long enough. The reason why I joined here was really in response to the drop off in activity at Saabnet.

Saabnet will probably never really go away, they have a real asset in the content that has been built there over the years. But the infrastructure and the current content flow is really terrible.

TSL is much more fun, there is a lot of drama, and there is some real knowledge that gets exchanged. There is a large portion of OT stuff, which actually surprises me. I am surprised when someone posts an "Off Topic" thread that is truly Off Topic; jk88, your Roku thread is an interesting example. For some people, Off Topic discussions like that are an asset - and one not available on Saabnet. For me, I don't come to a Saab forum to ask TV questions (though jk88, I think that thread was productive).

I don't see a lot of areas for improvement at the moment. I think things are going quite well. If people feel strongly about getting the trolling out of here, fine, I don't feel strongly. Maybe there should be a "public opinion banhammer" option for those situations!

I would try to get feedback, to the extent you want it, from the guys like Tweek and BurnSide who were very active, then there was some sort of flareup and they went away. Maybe you already have gotten more feedback than you want. To those of us in the peanut gallery, its hard to know what happened, but they are people who once were happy here, became unhappy, and left. Most of the rest of us, I believe, are pretty happy.

Good thread idea BTW.
Yeah Saabnet is a super valuable resource for technical info. Like you said, with a lot of these cars, esp c900s, what will go wrong has gone wrong, and chances are good someone there has posted about it.

Re: my Roku thread... I lurk on a bunch of forums, but I don't post on very many. I know there are a lot of cheap, tech savvy people here and figured a few could opine on my request.

Tweek is a good dude. I don't want to speak for him but my understanding was he left primarily because of the ownership situation -- the same reason DeLorean and Aireeca post a lot less. Burns was a similar yet different situation that I'd rather not get into publicly, because he and I were at odds over his attitude and letting go of the things that simply weren't going to change (VS ownership). I feel badly about how that played out, but it is what it is.

There will always be people who get fed up with things, no matter what the overall temperature of the forum is. Some people like (and even contribute) the snark for a long time and get fed up after a while. For others it's the other way around.

I haven't been a mod for very long relative to the age of the site, but I think it's a good idea to take a pulse now and then, so people know they can affect the direction of things despite being one of thousands of members.
 

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Good feedback in here!

For the record, people have been saying that about the "old days" since I joined in 2005.

So yeah, the past is always rose-colored, if you catch my drift.
 

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^ I like the bear pit idea.

I've been here for about a year and a half. I'm not in a position to opine on the "demise" of things - I just haven't been here long enough. The reason why I joined here was really in response to the drop off in activity at Saabnet.

Saabnet will probably never really go away, they have a real asset in the content that has been built there over the years. But the infrastructure and the current content flow is really terrible.

TSL is much more fun, there is a lot of drama, and there is some real knowledge that gets exchanged. There is a large portion of OT stuff, which actually surprises me. I am surprised when someone posts an "Off Topic" thread that is truly Off Topic; jk88, your Roku thread is an interesting example. For some people, Off Topic discussions like that are an asset - and one not available on Saabnet. For me, I don't come to a Saab forum to ask TV questions (though jk88, I think that thread was productive).

I don't see a lot of areas for improvement at the moment. I think things are going quite well. If people feel strongly about getting the trolling out of here, fine, I don't feel strongly. Maybe there should be a "public opinion banhammer" option for those situations!

I would try to get feedback, to the extent you want it, from the guys like Tweek and BurnSide who were very active, then there was some sort of flareup and they went away. Maybe you already have gotten more feedback than you want. To those of us in the peanut gallery, its hard to know what happened, but they are people who once were happy here, became unhappy, and left. Most of the rest of us, I believe, are pretty happy.

Good thread idea BTW.
I pretty much agree with this. I know saabnet is the authority on technical questions, but I usually search around here first. Once I confirm that I can't easily find what I need here, then I surf over to saabnet.

As for the OT and the humor/snark, that's a lot of what I come here for. I realize that it gets out of hand quickly sometimes, especially in threads actually related to technical topics. But there is still room for some humor, I believe. But I do like to read the OT threads, I've learned a lot just by reading those threads, and also had some good laughs.

I say keep moderating the technical threads and keep them on-topic, but also continue to let us roam free in OT.

As for people not being able to get along, it's the internet, c'mon, everybody relax. Nobody needs to be that serious from behind their monitor.

My .02 as an almost daily lurker/infrequent poster for the last couple years.
 

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I don't post/lurk/read as much anymore for the following reasons:

1. I don't daily drive a Saab anymore which means I'm not having Saab break-down issues which means I can't post hilarious fixes like using the corset method to hold up a sagging c900 headliner. Conversely, a lot of threads posted have nothing to do with stuff I need to know. I might browse them slightly but don't really get involved too heavily.

2. I can only point people to stickied threads on how to short belt an OG9-3 so many times before my head starts to hurt. For the record, yes, that squealing under your hood is the AC pulley clutch locking up because your OG 9-3 has hit 75k - 125k. Someone on here, maybe the Chicago-hatin' Indianan has replaced just the clutch, but most people just replace the entire AC compressor and call it good.

3. The whole Vertical Scope situation doesn't grate on me too much these days since I've started reselling jk88's photos as my own to European ad agencies. Wait. What? Yeah, you get the idea. Honestly? Seeing how other sites of theirs are? They've been fairly kind to TSL thus far and probably don't get enough credit for not gang-banging us too hard with NOPI ads and Quaker State sponsorships. (I'm being serious here.) They have done a few weird things on the mod side with passwords and whatnot but whatever.

4. I'm sure a lot of the newer members are real nice folks and have awesome cars, but I don't have a connection to them like I had with other folks who I met IRL at SOCs and Carlisles and whatnot. That's probably just a side effect of being an XX, however.

Is TSL changing? All the time, even was back in the "good old days" when several members/mods were beyond sketchilicious yet hilarious. Will every member change with TSL? Probably not, it would be silly to assume they would.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
3. The whole Vertical Scope situation doesn't grate on me too much these days since I've started reselling jk88's photos as my own to European ad agencies. Wait. What? Yeah, you get the idea. Honestly? Seeing how other sites of theirs are? They've been fairly kind to TSL thus far and probably don't get enough credit for not gang-banging us too hard with NOPI ads and Quaker State sponsorships. (I'm being serious here.) They have done a few weird things on the mod side with passwords and whatnot but whatever.
I'm not saying I wholly disagree with you on an ideological level, but it's a hard distinction to make when you break it down.

I have trouble differentiating between moderating a site owned by a rarely present, faceless, supposed-enthusiast admin who makes a few bucks from ads (and don't forget, sold out in the end, the dick) versus moderating a site with a corporate owner who also makes a few bucks off the site but actually pays attention most of the time. Yes they've added a bunch of BS along the way, but I see some equilibrium there.

If you want to hearken back the big bang of *site started for friends* being holier than *site run by corporation*, I can't make the distinction. They are/were both run for *some* money. By someone I didn't/don't know. I never saw the previous owner's books to know any/all revenue was put back into the site. Plus, we know the money from the sale sure didn't go there...

Back when we were having this convo on the mod panel I asked DeLo a question when you guys were still somewhat active. What's the difference between stocking one shelf without pay at Wal-Mart and one hundred? If you ate the apple a little bit, you still ate the apple, and your post in this thread generated $0.00000001 in revenue for VS. How little is too little to not matter? How much is enough to start caring/stop visiting?

I still mod here because I like the place. To me, the new boss is the same as the old boss, they just have a bigger office.
 

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People take the internet way too seriously.
QFT.

this is the INTERNET. If you want a super technical forum, go post on saabnet. I find this to be a much more social forum with lots of humor and bantering in the threads. Its why I read here.

Many of you probably remember Moreboost's engine re-build thread. It is still probably one of my favorite reads on TSL. There was lots of banter and internet insults, but he took it in stride and made sure to put his flame suit on. He never curled up in the shower and cried about it. If you come on here and act like an moron, expect to catch some flack. If you can't handle it post your "my way is the only way" threads someplace else. :flipoff:

Its the internet, someone will always disagree.

:th_MySaab900Like:
 

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Honestly i love this place as is. EXCEPT FOR THE PERSONAL ATTACKS.

Like holy shit some of you like legitally know how to make some one feel like a piece of shit.

Like no ones ever attacked me but i feel bad for some of the people that post alot of useful shit and then get gangbanged bashed for previous shit or completely off topic or personal life shit.

BUT TSL IS AWESOME, Beer, Humor, Weed smoking, Half naked women, Ironjoes sexy cars, and actually i feel like this place is more performance and aesthetic which i prefer.

Id rather this place be over run by Assholes then Noobs posting shit thats been answered 2.739 BILLIONx like over on saabcentral.
 

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I came here from Saab central which was boring me to tears.
Don't get me wrong, I still like SC and post there all the time.

But this place is a bit more relaxed, More social which I like. And great for performance advice.

Look, Your always going to get some dickhead saying dumb shit, but that's the internet.

And also with people having rants and leaving, well that's just the cycle of things. Out with the old, and in with the new, as they say.

I like it here, I get a laugh :)
 

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Being a member of probably a dozen different automotive forums I can say that this place is better than most. I am a member of clublexus.com. It is a very helpful, very busy forum. But the moderating crew has very strict rules about things. Sometimes this can seem overbearing, and sometimes they can come across as rude and "search button Nazis", but they are very effective at keeping the forums clean and useful. They tolerate no crap between members and it shows.

On the other hand, a couple of other forums I have been on are the exact opposite. There moderating is very lax. What happens then is the whole place turns into OT. Nobody can get any good info, it all just bashing left and right. (Think honda forums).

Another interesting forum I am on is Celicatech.com. A few years ago it was a hopin place. One of the most helpful, fun, and enjoyable forums to be on. Everyone was helpful and encouraging and while there were those few people that didn't get along (there always will be), they would usually hash it out in off topic while everyone else watched from a distance. It almost felt like a big family. Nowadays, it is a very different place and I am very concerned that tsl will follow this trend.. Keep in mind, Toyota doesn't make the celica anymore. Since this happened, the forum has shrunk tremendously. The only people left on there have formed a "click" of sorts and while they welcome new members, everything is inside jokes, and reflecting on the "good old days". Since Saab is no more. I am seeing the start of the same slowdown here. Used to be, I would check every hour or 2 on here and there would always be new posts. Now I check twice a day, and there might be a few new replies. (half of them being about other cars/stuff besides saabs). I am just worried that this place is going to become boring/off topic enough to drive the technically inclined people away.

There needs to be a balance of "by the book rules", and letting people have fun. I definitely believe in letting people settle their differences in a section dedicated to that. and any overflow of that into other sections be dealt with harshly. Little jabs in fun are fine, whatever, but I'm tired of reading a book about how people dont like eachother in the middle of a thread about something completely different. This place was always fairly good about keeping that in check, I'm not sure what happened about 2 weeks ago, but it seemed like someone flipped a switch and I was checking the browser to make sure I wasn't on hondatech or something. People need to either work through their differences or dont, but dont start a shitshow for everyone to see. If it is a buyer/seller/money issue, there are avenues to resolve those kind of problems. Bitching isn't one of them.

Overall, this is one of the better overall forums as far as quality is concerned. People have their complaints, but in general it is still better than a lot of them. People have always been helpful to me if I had a question, and I have enjoyed it here. There isn't a lot that needs to change to make this a better place, maybe just trying to get along. We don't need this place becoming a ghost town any more than it is going to anyways. I hope it will continue to be a good source for information and parts/etc, in the future where anything involving Saabs is going to diminish significantly.

/longrant
 

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I don't really really see an issue other than people bickering and closing threads and junk.

I think if people keep the questionable material to properly marked threads in OT and if people keep from bullying/slander against other members it should be fine.

Also cluttering up for sale threads with worthless comments is annoying. Unless you are protecting the members from a bad seller, commenting on price should not be allowed.
 

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I still love this place and read nearly every post. Keep up the good work.
I just wish more folks would post in the gun thread.........
 
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