didnt i tell you, i bought saab.
they threw in some sweet swedish office furniture.

 

Hoo boy. I don't even want to think about it. My guess though, is that Saab has bought the farm.

 

I hope GM doesn't axe Saturn, that's where I was gonna go for my next 9-3 ish econo sedan. Love that Aura.

 

I'd rather have saturns Sky over the Solstice but would much rather have the G8 over anything else from Saturn. Oh well I guess .

Now if only Saab could get the Sky. That would be some badge engineering I could live with .

 

Everyone's favorite automotive overlord gets to go back, point to its good deeds and ask for more money Tuesday when it submits its restructuring plan.

Any guesses on what the proposal will contain?

Is Saturn dead and gone?

Is GM filing for Chapter 11?

Saab, dirt nap or what?

Discuss.

hmmmmm....

hi all.

I think Sweden will float the loans in return for a hefty share of Saab, then will shop the company or run it as a nationalized entity once the economy revives. OR.....it won't float the loans and Saab will be put on the market or, more likely, shuttered.

Saturn is history, as there's no real reason for it to exist. It's not really an alternative to anything anymore. GM can bring in rebadged Opels under the Buick or Chevy marque, similar to what it is doing with Pontiac/Holden.

GM will only file Chap. 11 if the UAW doesn't agree to huge concessions, which it probably will. It's already given up the job bank provisions and will probably agree to serious staffing cuts. The real issue is the existing heath care program for retirees, which is bleeding the company dry.

 

hi all.

Long time no talk, stranger.

Last I heard though, the union folks walked out on the talks with GM...dunno if there is any new news after that, but I'd take that as a sign they aren't being smart, and aren't willing to take a pay cut.

Paul

They were supposedly back at the table at some point during the weekend. Not sure if anything came out of it.

GM should file for chapter 11 so they don't have to honor these ridiculous union wages and contracts.

Or suffer the consequences of wholesale closing dealerships for entire brands....Yuck.

 

MIKE! Your back! Where and what have you been upto.

Also. That is a rather interesting perspective and a plausible one at that.

 

Last I heard though, the union folks walked out on the talks with GM...dunno if there is any new news after that, but I'd take that as a sign they aren't being smart, and aren't willing to take a pay cut.

Paul

 

GM should file for chapter 11 so they don't have to honor these ridiculous union wages and contracts.

 

yes!!! that is the problem.
NOT
(honda and Toyota have very similar pay scales and benfits
The problem is in the healthcare for retirees.
It is on GM's balance Sheets.

 

i loved in the congressional hearings how the job banks issue was brought up:

GM CEO: "job bank is getting phased out in 2010. thanks for the suggestion, though."
Congressman: "2010??? why doesn't it get phased out, like, NOW!"

i punched it up a bit for dramatic effect...but this issue was discussed

 

I don't know... I think Saab is probably going to get shuttered. It would be nice if sweeden would help out and possibly run it as a state auto company like some others mentioned. It would also be nice if the previous owners and designers came back in as well.

 

Reuters revisits what it expects will be in the package, although this is just a very succinct re-cap versus any real peek into the situation.

DEALERS: GM and Chrysler are expected to provide some basis for reducing dealerships. Both automakers have said they must trim the number of dealers in metropolitan areas.

This should be good news for Moonracer. I hope.

 

Chrysler has pushed dealers to order more vehicles to boost revenue ahead of the deadline. It urged more than 3,000 dealers to order 78,000 new vehicles in February.

Oh this cracks me up right here. I forget which drug company it was that did something exactly like this to boost its sales figures. I think however the difference was that the drug company forced the buyers to purchase the drug to make there balance sheets look good for the quarter. Obviously the real financial situation of the company turned up shortly after. I believe its called stuffing the channel? When will they ever learn.

 

Oh kids, it's not looking good, according to Bloomberg.

GM is considering shutting or selling as many as four European plants as it tries to meet the terms of a U.S. government bailout, a person familiar with the plans said. Factories run by GM's Opel division in Antwerp, Belgium, and Bochum, Germany, could be closed and an Eisenach, Germany, factory may be sold, as GM seeks about $1.5 billion of savings, said the person, who requested anonymity because the plans aren't public. The sale or closure of GM's Trollhaettan, Sweden-based Saab division would also eliminate a plant, the person added.

Opel, Saab and Coventry, England-based Vauxhall build cars at nine plants in four European Union countries. The closures would be aimed at scaling back capacity by 1 million vehicles, the person said.
Saab has been on "life support" for most of the two decades since the U.S. company first bought a stake, GM Vice President Bob Lutz said last month. GM is in talks with Sweden's government on state loan guarantees for the unit.

 

look at the bright side, if saab dies, our cars will just become more of a collector car.

 

Here's what the Washington Post says about the situation:

GM is seeking further concessions from the UAW, and negotiations continued late last night. Under the Bush administration, the Treasury sought to reduce UAW compensation to levels competitive with foreign manufacturers'. Another key issue in the talks is whether a portion of a pending company payment to the union-run health-care trust fund could be made in company stock rather than cash.

In recent weeks, both GM and Chrysler have offered their workers a range of early retirement and buyout offers, which could help close the gap. For example, GM offered employees a $25,000 voucher for a new GM car or truck and $20,000 in cash; about 22,000 of its employees were eligible.

Two thoughts of my own:

1. If Saab does fail, then the dark side really will have won. Oh, those Ovlovs.

2. Carlisle may feel like a wake. An Irish wake for a Swedish car. Everyone, pack a forty for pouring on the ground near your car.

 

if saab dies i will officially be shithoused all weekend.

and i'll bring the rusty spg, piss openly on the show field, and make a complete ass of myself.

probably go tearing around the autox in the spg too, 40 in hand.

 

if saab dies i will officially be shithoused all weekend.

and i'll bring the rusty spg, piss openly on the show field, and make a complete ass of myself.

probably go tearing around the autox in the spg too, 40 in hand.

Aside from the rusty spg, this is different from last year how?

Should Saab disappear, I'll be packing plenty of Screech, the Newfoundland rum, Coke and the necessary ingredients for many, many pineapple bombs. Hell, I might convert the trunk of the convertible into a cooler.

Should Saab not disappear, I'll be packing plenty of Screech, the Newfoundland rum, Coke and the necessary ingredients for many, many pineapple bombs. Hell, I might convert the trunk of the convertible into a cooler.

 

this sounds like a fantastic idea.

i'll bring stuff for carbombs.

 

this sounds like a fantastic idea.

i'll bring stuff for carbombs.

Ill take care of that*

 

you better go finish it then. unless your planning on towing it with you corrado.

 

How about we put that v8 sonnet to use, im sure it has good towing capabilities

I am sooooo glad to see your recent malaise has not affected your sense of humor. You rock.

Thanks!! laughing is the best medicine, hopefully this stupid palsy bs goes away soon, its getting annoying

pssh hes being a wimp. when i was his age i assembled an entire vsaab withen 2 months, and i only had one leg. now i actually have my prothesis.

What? and i am not a wimp you ass, i have other priorities right now

 

pssh hes being a wimp. when i was his age i assembled an entire vsaab withen 2 months, and i only had one leg. now i actually have my prothesis.

 

Well, I aim to please. However, I'm a little worried. Last time we had a scare like this, Marty (Moonracer) was around saying things weren't as bad as they seemed after talking to some reps. (Don't remember the exact wording, so it may be a bit off.)

Haven't heard much from him today. Hope everything's OK with him. Regardless, tonight's a whistling "Que Sera Sera" night. Who knows how things are going to end up tomorrow or in the next few weeks?

 

I refuse to believe anything until it happens.

 

That's my take as well.

 

waiting to hear...maybe i'll actually watch cspan for shits and giggles.

Just think though of all the ridiculous craigslist ads that will appear if saab goes under

 

I don't know I have the feeling that Saab isn't going to be shuttered. We'll find out soon I guess.

 

Most of the stories running today reference GM trying to sell Saab. Now, unless that group of investors comes through, I'm not sure who or what else they're talking about.

But, yes, it'll be interesting, it always is.

 

I think GM is playing a giant game of chicken with the Swedish government, which really doesn't want to be left holding the remains of Saab once it becomes independent.

Normally I would say it's just a matter of time before a deal is reached. But GM is screwed up on so many levels, in the current crisis I fear they'll kill Saab as a chest-beating PR move. "Look, we're restructuring! - See, we killed Saab"

On its best day GM is perfectly capable of screwing Saab up, and under the current circumstances I just don't see GM having the ability to manage a soft landing for a very small and obscure part of the problem.

It's going to take a few weeks before we have any confidence about what's going to happen to Saab, IMHO.

But I have a bad feeling about all of this.

 

I think GM is playing a giant game of chicken with the Swedish government, which really doesn't want to be left holding the remains of Saab once it becomes independent.

Normally I would say it's just a matter of time before a deal is reached. But GM is screwed up on so many levels, in the current crisis I fear they'll kill Saab as a chest-beating PR move. "Look, we're restructuring! - See, we killed Saab"

On its best day GM is perfectly capable of screwing Saab up, and under the current circumstances I just don't see GM having the ability to manage a soft landing for a very small and obscure part of the problem.

It's going to take a few weeks before we have any confidence about what's going to happen to Saab, IMHO.

But I have a bad feeling about all of this.

Maybe we will have to move over to the other Swedish meat...