Oh I'm just gonna wait for Topher to jump into this one.

 

i'm 99% sure the engine would be too long to fit without major mods

even if it would, you'd spend a lot more $ doing that than you would modding the subaru motor.

 

even if it would, you'd spend a lot more $ doing that than you would modding the subaru motor.

This #1

 

that would be interesting, Ive seen a nissan 240sx with a t5 engine from a 1997 ng900. it was a close fit, but the mounts were fabricated and it worked out well. I dont know the owner but I saw it at ics (the majority of the work was done elsewhere).

 

I have a friend who has a old 64-96 with a Subaru motor and trans in it though. I've been trying to get him get me some pictures of it now that it's painted and running.

 

look up goran

 

This is a brilliant idea. The Subaru motors have never been proven to hold high amounts of power and they are totally unreliable. And finding performance parts for them is sooo daunting.

I really wish I had thought of this first.

Hell, I am thinking about talking moonracer into swapping a T5 into my SS.

 

Hehehe

I don't agree that it would be cheaper to mod a Subaru vs. getting a BXXX engine into the Subaru unless your Subaru is already turbo'd...then you can basically just up the power with even basic mods. I'm talking non-turbo Subarus, like Imprezas (RS) or even a wagon such as the Legacy or Impreza, etc. etc.

Swapping in a Subaru turbo'd engine into these cars isn't exactly cheap...nor is building one up. A B234, as an example, can be found for say, $400...then add turbo of your choice, tune the T5 suite, and uhhh...even if it did fit, the electrical stuff has to be something else to deal with...I'm sure that could be done. I think if you are handy "and" the engine indeed fits, then you can pull off a setup for about $1000 with a nice beefy turbo. For an equally powerful setup that has way weaker torque, it would cost $2000-$3000 if going with Subaru parts.

 

Just saw this post. If everything did fit, that means you would have custom fab a lot of things, not to mention labor which cost a lot too. Also what kind of power will a B234 with a T5 produce?

About that torque comment, it really gets to me because Subaru engines are almost "square." That means the stroke is the same as the cyl diameter. This gives the engine the unique characteristic to have about the same amount of torque in realation to horsepower. Search most WRX dyno graphs and you can see that the torque figures are close together.

Here's a graph from a 2004 STi with a faulty boost controller. As you can see even with bad boost control, the car managed pretty good numbers.

 

you're fucking kidding me, right?

first you need you design an adapter plate to mount the motor to the transmission. if you dont have access to autocad or solidworks, you're talking HUGE money to have somebody else do it. then you have to have that adapter milled out. if you dont have access to either a CNC or a regular mill, you're talking HUGE money.

then you have to have a custom clutch made with the saab disk and subaru splines, as well as create a spacer to go between the slave cylinder and the throwout bearing.

then you run into the fact that the saab motor is a lot taller than the subaru motor, and is going to look like a V8 with a supercharger sticking out of the hood.

then you have to put an engine management system in

if you cant do all of that yourself, this is a $20,000 project

 

A flat 4 is 2 cylinders long, a Saab 4 cylinder is 4 cyl long, and I'm sure that translates into quite a bit.

And I guarantee it is cheaper to swap in a 4 cyl turbo scoobie motor than making some Saab power subie monstrosity. And why T5 to run it?! Its not some magic awesome management system, you can probably accomplish things better with whatever Subaru uses.

if you cant do all of that yourself, this is a $20,000 project

And if you CAN do it yourself you would understand very quickly how much more work this would entail, and the value of the custom made parts that would be needed, and realize it is in no way a "good idea."

Sure, it can be done, but it would take a TON of screwing around, and you will not end up with anything vastly more capable than what you could do with Subaru parts.

 

yeah, you could swap in a direct fit WRX 2.0 turbo motor in. It would connect directly to the transmission/awd system etc. All for ~$2-3k.

Or you could find some Saab B motor just drop it under the hood, I am sure everything mounts right up. I am also sure you wouldn't spend more than $400 on it to get it to work.

Again I commend you on your foresight.


beat by castor troy, only he used naughty grown up words.

 

Sounds dumb to me....isn't Subie's big design feature a low center of gravity due to the pancake 4? Would this not throw the car's balance way off and result in crappy handling??

 

I don't think you understand how much work this sort of custom job takes.

 

I think it would suprise the hell out of you how much work and money it would take to add a B234 to a C900, and that's a relatively apples-to-apples type of project in the scope of things. The motors are the same general dimension, similar electronics, etc. Not two completely different rigs.

 

i had a similar idea of taking an STi and an EVO and swapping the engines on both just for shits and calling them both STiEVO's hahaha. i'm kidding...well, sort of. i'll get around to it once i'm rich...

 

I'm swapping a turbo b motor into my wifes car, because I need to change the oil.

 

I'm trying to figure out how to fit a dual 351 Windsor setup into my Sonett II.

 

swapping my bmw m10 into the viggen. Non Turbo 8 valve for the win

 

I have one thing to say: Use a condom.

 

Okay, i have never understood just doing something for the sake of doing it... why?!?

I have an idea for an old school celica with a rotary swap, but thats because i would want the ultimate in light weight, whats the point here? (im not trying to null the idea, i just do see where the gains would be)

Another thing (i might get flamed for it), as far as i know, the subaru boxer engines can take more of a beating than saab engines can.

My friend is a subie nut, he has a 99 2.5RS and a 2.0L turbo from a '02 and a built 2.5 boxer engine (oil leak in that one). The plan is to swap in the 2.0L turbo as it will have asstons of power for such a light car. Yes it will take a ton of wiring, i've been through it with him, but for the most part its just swapping connectors. The saab engine WILL NOT FIT physically without moving the radiator a huge amount, or the transmission (simply put: No)

Also, these boxer engines are not short on torque in the least...

 

Adrenaline- go for the rotary/celica idea. Sounds fun.
I built a peripheral port 12a at a friends house and transported it home in the front passenger seat of my prelude right next to me. I even buckled the little guy up (for my safety)
Once home I picked it up and carried it to the garage for install.
I'm expecting 270-290hp naturally aspirated in conjunction with a Weber 48ida carb.

Now about the bxxx in a subaru-- As stated if you have the cash and time....do et...do et naaaawwww!

 

Adrenaline- go for the rotary/celica idea. Sounds fun.
I built a peripheral port 12a at a friends house and transported it home in the front passenger seat of my prelude right next to me. I even buckled the little guy up (for my safety)
Once home I picked it up and carried it to the garage for install.
I'm expecting 270-290hp naturally aspirated in conjunction with a Weber 48ida carb.

Now about the bxxx in a subaru-- As stated if you have the cash and time....do et...do et naaaawwww!

Haha! noice, personally its all about power to weight, not big power.

And yes, progression, if you think you can do it, prove us wrong, I won't lie, i'm still interested to see a build of it, would definitely respect all the work done.

 

Hello I'm the friend that Adrenaline406 mentioned. I've been in the Suby community since 2003 when the WRX came stateside and I'm just here to clarify some things up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to flame, just to provide info.

I know it sounds stupid difficult to do or even stupid all-together to swap in a totally different engine/ecu system into a totally different car, but gosh it would be nice to have the easy to work with T5 or etc. system along with a Stage 3-4+ setup that puts down 250WHP and 375 Torque

A stage 3-4 Subaru (for the sake of argument, a WRX) will put out about 350-380 crank hp, or about 280-310 at the wheels. If your supplied HP numbers are crank, consider the AWD drivetrain to loses about 20% going to the wheels. And just for reference, a stock 2006 WRX (with the 2.5L engine) with just a catback exhaust and tuning can achieve 220HP/240TQ at the wheels.

Would be way cheap with a used engine, way cheap for ECU management, and you'd have a wayyyyy faster car than anything you could put into a Subaru without scary crazy modifications which you could in turn do to the Saab engine.

I'm not sure how prices run in the Saab world. But a Cobb AccessPort allows the user to flash a "Base" map (timing, fuel duty cycles etc) and a "Real time" map. The real time map doesn't affect the ECU's ability to remember (I'm sure you guys know that the more times you flash an ECU, the higher the chance you have to corrupt the memory). Since there's a real time map on the ECU, the tuner (or yourself) can easily retune for an additional mod like a cold air intake, for example. The AccessPort runs $600.
Again, with power: A turbo swap, an 18G to be exact, with supporting mods can easily achieve 300whp, or about 370 crank.

Now for my 0.02. Subaru engines, as mentioned earlier are only 2 cyl deep since we have boxer engines. I've seen a Saab engine from Adrenaline406's NG900 and they're way too long to fit inside the Suby's engine bay. If you were to keep the AWD system you're gonna have to either move the firewall back, which in turn making a shorter drive shaft, or moving the bumper forward. If you want to keep the drivetrain FWD (FWD Suby?! C'mon, people buy Subys for the AWD, but to each his own) you're gonna have to A LOT of custom fab. And in all honestly I dunno if that can be done reliably since the direction of the crossmember will have to be positioned longitudinally in the engine bay.

Other than those amazing mechanical problems you've got wiring....But if you're set on doing something like that, by all means go ahead it's your car do what you want.

 

Hello I'm the friend that Adrenaline406 mentioned. I've been in the Suby community since 2003 when the WRX came stateside and I'm just here to clarify some things up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to flame, just to provide info.

A stage 3-4 Subaru (for the sake of argument, a WRX) will put out about 350-380 crank hp, or about 280-310 at the wheels. If your supplied HP numbers are crank, consider the AWD drivetrain to loses about 20% going to the wheels. And just for reference, a stock 2006 WRX (with the 2.5L engine) with just a catback exhaust and tuning can achieve 220HP/240TQ at the wheels.

I'm not sure how prices run in the Saab world. But a Cobb AccessPort allows the user to flash a "Base" map (timing, fuel duty cycles etc) and a "Real time" map. The real time map doesn't affect the ECU's ability to remember (I'm sure you guys know that the more times you flash an ECU, the higher the chance you have to corrupt the memory). Since there's a real time map on the ECU, the tuner (or yourself) can easily retune for an additional mod like a cold air intake, for example. The AccessPort runs $600.
Again, with power: A turbo swap, an 18G to be exact, with supporting mods can easily achieve 300whp, or about 370 crank.

Now for my 0.02. Subaru engines, as mentioned earlier are only 2 cyl deep since we have boxer engines. I've seen a Saab engine from Adrenaline406's NG900 and they're way too long to fit inside the Suby's engine bay. If you were to keep the AWD system you're gonna have to either move the firewall back, which in turn making a shorter drive shaft, or moving the bumper forward. If you want to keep the drivetrain FWD (FWD Suby?! C'mon, people buy Subys for the AWD, but to each his own) you're gonna have to A LOT of custom fab. And in all honestly I dunno if that can be done reliably since the direction of the crossmember will have to be positioned longitudinally in the engine bay.

Other than those amazing mechanical problems you've got wiring....But if you're set on doing something like that, by all means go ahead it's your car do what you want.

One thing to remember, is the sillyness of stages.

A Saab stage 3-4 may be very different than the average stage 3-4 WRX.

For example, on a Viggen like mine, stage 3 is just an ECU/FPR and full exhaust. That is IT, stock turbo and all. On average that is good for about 250whp and 300tq. Now it used to be that the tune was $800-1000 but with the advent of T7 suite you can now get tunes for $200 or less.

Now correct if I am wrong, but the bigger numbers you see from a WRX(depending on year, 2.0 to 2.5 and which turbo as I think 06+ make good numbers) but often require a reworked turbo. Isn't stage 3 more involved?

 

i know of a saab running a b204 that makes 500hp/400ft-lbs at the wheels. a 9000 with a b234 with that makes around 420whp

 

Oh, wow very nice! Then yeah, by all means to the OP, if you could mechanically fit the engine into a Suby and do the wiring, go for it! Not unless it costs more than 3k...cause then you could have just swapped a Suby turbo engine.

 

I'll try to refrain myself from commenting the sillyness of the topic but on an bit ot note check this one out http://www.garaget.org/?car=108363

b204 (9500rpm<-uhoh) in a bmw z3.

nice

 

WHAT!?!?!

Hey chris, thanks for adding. To let you know the most saabs use the b series engine and t5 is the engine management. Like mine, with the map sensor is t5, later models (like my step moms '02) is a t7, with a maf sensor.

 

hey guys...just to add another monkey wrench to the equation...did you happen to see the s2000 on ebay for sale with the supra 2jz swap? 16k out the door.... i guess sometimes divorces can be good for some...

 

There's a guy here in town with what I'm sure is the first 2jz powered Mustang Cobra in the world.

Old:

New:

:-D

 

sry 4 the double post....

I think a more realistic swap would be into a newer GM car with an ecotec drivetrain, since they use the F35 transmission, I think that would work because of the similar bell housings.

Maybe even a Solstice. RWD saab power anyone?

 

Wait.....You would put a non subaru engine....into a subaru? So thats like a same sex change? Having a doctor chop off your penis and having him put on a smaller-flacid one? Why woud you replace a good powerful engine with lots of peformance options for one with less power and less performance options, not to mention harder to find a mechanic for?????? Thats why women shouldn't drink during pregnancy.

 

Well, not quite.

Its not that saab motors are "flaccid" or not capable in stock form

I think the point is that you're not going to gain a whole lot for the amount of work.