Let you tell me where to live (North East)

697 Views 39 Replies 11 Participants Last post by someguy, Apr 27, 2009

someguy

Discussion Starter · Apr 21, 2009

Under employment and some pretty enticing VA benefits have me pretty much set on returning to school next year.

I've got it down to two schools Vermont Law and Franklin Pierce.

Vermont Law is best in the country for Environmental Law and Franklin Pierce is fifth best in the country for Intellectual Property law. I'm fine with either program. Price is exactly the same, I can't refuse it.

Vermont Law is in South Royalton (tiny) and Franklin Pierce is in Concord, NH (a bit bigger then where I live now). Obviously a direct comparison is out of the question, but does anyone have any personal experience they can share, either with Concord, NH or Rural Vermont?

How are the job markets in NH and VT? My girlfriend will be in tote and she'll need some sort of employment eventually. She's a teacher, but is currently unemployed after we both lost our jobs in December. I see this as being the biggest reason to choose NH over VT.

I've lived in a variety of places ranging from Cities in the North East, Rural Towns in the South and even a sub tropic island, so I grow where I'm planted, but any and all added perspectives would be welcome.

I'll be spending this Friday in VT and this Saturday in NH. Any enjoyable places to go or stay in either?

-I also got into Maine School of Law, but haven't looked into it too much.
-I'd get a higher housing allowance in NH by $400 a month.

Thanks in advance.

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

aireeca

· #2 · Apr 21, 2009

Law school in Vermont? Tosh. It might be the only state left where you can just sit for the bar without a law degree. There used to be at least one justice on the state's Supreme Court who went that route.

I know there are a lot of Vermonters on the board and I lived there for seven years, some of which in rural areas. I'll post up more after I finish running some errands today.

8valvegrowl

· #3 · Apr 21, 2009

S. Royalton is a nice little town, but it will definitely be harder to find jobs in VT vs a bigger area like Concord. Although teachers are pretty portable, what does she teach?

I'm biased, I love VT, so I'd steer you that way.

VT Law is an excellent school, my brother-in-law had to choose between VT Law and Iowa Law, ultimately he chose Iowa since it had a lot more to offer.

S. Royalton is pretty close to Montpelier, which at least has some cosmopolitan feel to it, good farmer's markets and lots of good places to eat. Rents are pretty cheap in the rural areas of VT, but there are other costs (driving places to do things, etc)

Check out the Hunger Mtn. Co-op or the Black Door Bistro Friday night for food. There may be something interesting going on at the Savoy too.

http://www.hungermountain.com/
http://www.blackdoorvt.com/

http://www.savoytheater.com/coming.html

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Gobes

· #4 · Apr 21, 2009

Concord is a pretty nice area as well... Not too big and not too small. My dad went to Franklin Pierce and he said he thoroughly enjoyed it.

stig

· #5 · Apr 21, 2009

Hi from rural Vermont

Good things: Quiet, nice view, no zoning

Not so good things: Everything is a minimum of 10 miles away, roads are shit (at least around here)

Things you will have to get used to: Cow shit (smelling and driving through), tractors in the road.

I'll probably add more later.

CycM17

· #6 · Apr 21, 2009 (Edited)

Gobes said:
Concord is a pretty nice area as well... Not too big and not too small. My dad went to Franklin Pierce and he said he thoroughly enjoyed it.

I had an internship in Concord my sr. year of college. Seems to be a nice place... though I spent more time working and not hanging out. I certainly wouldn't mind living there/near there at all.

FP's main campus is in Rindge or something right? Kinda middle of nowhere-ish, but closer to Keene/Peterborough, and Mt. Monadnock if I remember.

For your girlfriend's sake, there was a critical need for teacher's of certain skill (math, enviro science, and spanish) near Concord and points north (and WAY north) a little while back when I graduated. Not sure what they're looking for as of now...

someguy

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 21, 2009

8valvegrowl said:
S. Royalton is a nice little town, but it will definitely be harder to find jobs in VT vs a bigger area like Concord. Although teachers are pretty portable, what does she teach?

I'm biased, I love VT, so I'd steer you that way.

VT Law is an excellent school, my brother-in-law had to choose between VT Law and Iowa Law, ultimately he chose Iowa since it had a lot more to offer.

S. Royalton is pretty close to Montpelier, which at least has some cosmopolitan feel to it, good farmer's markets and lots of good places to eat. Rents are pretty cheap in the rural areas of VT, but there are other costs (driving places to do things, etc)

She teaches History and Special Ed. After a quick look it seams that her certifications will transfer to NH easier then they would to VT, but neither is out of the question. She's probably going back to get a masters soon so it may be a moot point shortly.

Good point on Montpelier, I was actually not even thinking about that. I lived in rural Missouri for a portion of last year so 30ish miles is nothing. I'll try to hit Montpelier on Friday night.

Gobes said:
Concord is a pretty nice area as well... Not too big and not too small. My dad went to Franklin Pierce and he said he thoroughly enjoyed it.

I've heard nothing, but good things from Alumni. I've never been to NH and look forward to seeing it for myself this weekend.

stig said:
Hi from rural Vermont

Good things: Quiet, nice view, no zoning

Not so good things: Everything is a minimum of 10 miles away, roads are shit (at least around here)

Things you will have to get used to: Cow shit (smelling and driving through), tractors in the road.

I'll probably add more later.

I was hoping you'd chime in, yeah I'm pretty sure my car will be a rusted heap after a few years in Vermont. Not enthralled by the idea of Cowshit though..

8valvegrowl

· #8 · Apr 21, 2009

The trick to VT winter is to have a beater. I live in Addison County (probably where 75% of the remaining dairy farms are) and I don't mind the cow smell, but I grew up around dairy farms in MD, too.

Special Ed is a good endorsement wherever you end up....my dad was in Special Ed and he never had problems finding work, no matter what state we lived in. I don't know much about certs in VT, my wife has a MAT for Middle Ed Math and Science, but she decided that she doesn't like teaching, so she never pursued getting cert'd here in VT after we moved here (after I finished grad school).

Soccerplyr lives in the Northeast Kingdom (near St. Johnsbury) and he's a teacher, he might be worth PM'ing.

DanF.

· #9 · Apr 21, 2009

+1 for NH. No sales tax. And you'll get more $$$ from the GI Bill. (I'm at Keene State College right now and can't wait for fall semester. )

someguy

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 21, 2009 (Edited)

DanF. said:
+1 for NH. No sales tax. And you'll get more $$$ from the GI Bill. (I'm at Keene State College right now and can't wait for fall semester. )

Yes! The post 9-11 GI bill is basically awesome! Bah/W at E-5 rate is a win.

And yes NH's TA is much more, but thanks to the "Yellow Ribbon Program" and a scholarship both schools will cost me the same ($0), but BAH is $400 less per month in Vermont. NH's higher TA rate would keep me safe if I lost the scholarship or the Yellow Ribbon program was discontinued my second or third year.

Yellow Ribbon Program- Schools can choose to chip in to supplement what the GI bill will not cover and the VA will match it.
http://inquiry.vba.va.gov/weamspub/buildSearchInstitutionCriteria.do

Basically covers you if you want to go to a private school or a state school where you aren't a resident.

someguy

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 21, 2009

8valvegrowl said:
The trick to VT winter is to have a beater. I live in Addison County (probably where 75% of the remaining dairy farms are) and I don't mind the cow smell, but I grew up around dairy farms in MD, too.

My car already is a beater. Very base 2000 9-3, I love it but I wouldn't be loosing too much sleep over the idea of rust.

I've been around enough cow farms to survive, its the pig farms that you have to watch out for...

VI009DZ

· #12 · Apr 21, 2009

stig said:
Good things:....no zoning

Oh heck yea there is. Act250 = the devil on paper.

Some awesome towns like Westford don't have zoning, but the majority still require an act of congress to put up anything larger than a birdbath.

As a native Vermonter, I'll play devils advocate and tell you what sucks.

1) Tax burden
2) Roads
3) Job market (except for Environmental Law....there's more friggin environmental red tape here than you can imagine, so apparently that means you won't have any trouble finding a job.
4) Cost of living; home heating, vehicle upkeep, plowing, blah blah...
5) Your car WILL rust out if its not a Delorean.

There are also a shitload of Birkenstock'd liberals, and you can get married if you're

Its a great place to live....I just hate seeing how its quickly becoming a "playground for the rich" state, more than a "work here, live here, raise a family here" state; directly related to the above Liberal and Env. law comments.

Good for you getting into VT Law...my sister in law went there. SoRo (south royalton) really is just like a postcard; beautiful area. Do whatever is going to give you the best job afterward.

In my eyes....we're always going to be making sure the paving machine doesn't run over the 1-eye'd newt, but I don't see ourselves protecting our IP too much longer. China and India have all the smart people thinking up crud like that. In 20 years, protecting our IP is going to be like making sure nobody steals the patent for the ballpoint pen......

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VI009DZ

· #13 · Apr 21, 2009

PS....where you staying in VT? If the SoRo area to check the school, let us know. There are some decent places around there we can recommend.

someguy

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 21, 2009

Thanks for the devil's advocate! To me the only thing that really would peeve me is the "playground for the rich" part. I'm seeing that a lot in certain towns in North Jersey as well.

Interesting point on the IT law, I wasn't really thinking too much about the future or the money as I was thinking about how much I enjoyed a class on the subject back in College, I'm sure day to day it would be a bit much. They also have a program in Human Rights Law that I'm considering.

VI009DZ said:
PS....where you staying in VT? If the SoRo area to check the school, let us know. There are some decent places around there we can recommend.

I've got my GF looking over some of the bed and breakfasts in the area to pick something out. If it were up to me my cheap ass would just go with the absolute cheapest room in the area.

If anyone has any suggestions on where to stay near SoRo and in Concord, NH I'd love to hear them.

VI009DZ

· #15 · Apr 21, 2009

If she wants a B&B, I'm sure it'll cost ya.

If you want to save some coin, either crash for the night in West Lebanon and drive the 20 miles up I89 to Bethel (exit 3) to see the school, or stay in Berlin, VT (exit 6) and drive back down to the school.

someguy

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 21, 2009

VI009DZ said:
If she wants a B&B, I'm sure it'll cost ya.

Sad but true.

I'm also considering spending the night in Montpelier so we get some sort of night life. She's never been to Vermont before so I'm kinda trying to impress her with the place.

She likes now Concord is closer to Boston...

aireeca

· #17 · Apr 21, 2009 (Edited)

I moved to Vermont 10 years ago this summer and spent the next seven living there. Should you move there, you might go through the following stages:

1. Loss. On some Friday nights right after moving there while walking to my car after work, I'd see the United flight to Chicago go over Burlington and think, "Well, there's the last flight out to civilization."

2. Joy replaced loss not too long after. Among other things, I discovered hiking (not really much of an option in largely flat Illinois where I grew up) and spent my second summer doing Vermont's five tallest peaks. I roamed the state in search of oddball corners and neat places.

3. Hunkering down mixed in during my second winter. I learned that Vermonters really do have the right idea that when it gets really ugly outside, just stay the hell home.

4. Letting go/resignation. Yeah, there's not a Target around Burlington, you can't get a decent Slurpee (this was pre-new Williston movie theater) and so what? Did I ever really live and work in suburbia? I mean, really?

5. Respect. It is not, and historically has not been, an easy place to live for most of its residents. The winters are hard, jobs sparse and land unforgiving at times.

Things I never got used to:
1. Let's save Vermont. From what? Godzilla? Drowning? Oh, wait. I get it expatriate New Yorkers....
2. Macrobiotic, organic, gluten-free, free-range tillapia or some other weird foodie nonsense. I like meat. Ta da.
3. The Vermont Kool Aid. Oh yeah! Oh no! Never drank it. Yes, it is a beautiful place to live and, yes, I miss certain things about the state and who I was when I lived there. But I also saw a lot of people move there and fall into a real, deep hatred of the rest of the "non-enlightened" universe.

Also, should you move there and leave, be prepared for people to look at you cross-eyed every time they learn you actually LEFT Vermont. That gets annoying.

New Hampshire has a much different vibe, even though it really is just across a river. I'd spend at least a weekend in each before you make your decision.

Also, just for future reference, Connecticut is really, really good to members of the armed forces as well. School is basically free (aside from books, I believe) for at least Navy vets, maybe all vets.

Addendum:

South Royalton, while more rural, is actually in a better, more central position than Burlington. From there, you're close to Boston, Rhode Island, Springfield, Mass. (shrugs), Maine and Connecticut (waves to New London).

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someguy

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 22, 2009

aireeca said:
I moved to Vermont 10 years ago this summer and spent the next seven living there. Should you move there, you might go through the following stages:

Also, just for future reference, Connecticut is really, really good to members of the armed forces as well. School is basically free (aside from books, I believe) for at least Navy vets, maybe all vets.

The stages were brilliant! And I do hope to spend some more time where ever before I make the final move, but this weekend should be enough to help me figure out where I want to put a deposit down, because I have to by the end of the month. If its not apparent what to do I'll put a seat deposit down on both.

Connecticut is good to Vets, Texas is good to Vets, and if you can establish residency California is a great state to go to school in, I have a few buddies from the service who go to school there now.

stig

· #19 · Apr 22, 2009

VI009DZ said:
Oh heck yea there is. Act250 = the devil on paper.

Some awesome towns like Westford don't have zoning, but the majority still require an act of congress to put up anything larger than a birdbath.

Clearly you're not rural enough.

We didn't need a permit to jack up the house and put a basement underneath it, nor did we need one to tear the roof off and replace it.

aireeca

· #20 · Apr 22, 2009

stig said:
Clearly you're not rural enough. We didn't need a permit to jack up the house and put a basement underneath it, nor did we need one to tear the roof off and replace it.

Well, you live in the wild, wild north...Franklin County.

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