Saab Link Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

New guy here looking for some info. before I purchase a knocking Saab. It's a 2000 9-3 2.0 turbo with an automatic.

The engine is definitely knocking, sounds like a wrist pin or a possibly a spun/loose rod bearing. My question is, how readily available are internal engine parts for these cars? And can the rod/main bearings be replaced just by dropping the oil pan (if it turns out it's a worn one), without pulling the engine?

I guess I should also ask what would be a common failure for these engines that would cause a knock?

Just trying to get a good idea of what I'm getting into here. Thanks in advance for any help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
oil pump screens get clogged on the t7 cars 2000 and up 9-3s and 1999 and up 9-5s they fixed it around 2003? anyhow they would get clogged and prevent lubrication and yes parts are available but most just swap in fresher engines

If you like that body style either fine a t7 with an extensive maintenance record or a 1999 which has the stronger less problematic t5 engine and is the first year of the OG93 and the only year with that body style/engine combo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
oil pump screens get clogged on the t7 cars 2000 and up 9-3s and 1999 and up 9-5s they fixed it around 2003? anyhow they would get clogged and prevent lubrication and yes parts are available but most just swap in fresher engines

If you like that body style either fine a t7 with an extensive maintenance record or a 1999 which has the stronger less problematic t5 engine and is the first year of the OG93 and the only year with that body style/engine combo.
Thanks for the quick reply.

To be totally honest, I'm only buying this one because of the price. It'll either make a nice daily for the g/f or a quick turn-around sale.

Where would the best place be to find an engine to swap in or parts to buy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
well where are you located? if you update your info people on here will be able to throw out suggestions based on where you live. none of us truly know everything but as a collective we'll have all the answers ;). how much are you getting this car for with an engine knock? the 1999's can be had for fairly cheap and IMHO or personally i feel they'd be a bit more reliable. maybe you'd get 3 or 4 more mph with a t7 car but if you beat on the car or modify it like a lot on here do the t5 tends to hold up better. just so i dont get flamed i have to tell you that if you decide to go the t7 route they can be made reliable with all the pcv updates and with the proper preventive maintenance. GL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,023 Posts
Probably a spun bearing but then the cranks are usually scored. You can't remove the crank in situ to have it reground, so out comes the engine.

I agree that a used engine is the only effective solution.

Used Engines, try salvage yards or better yet find a 900 94- or 9000 94- cheap and pull it for the engine.

Eeuroparts is a good parts source.

Good luck, welcome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
Probably a spun bearing but then the cranks are usually scored. You can't remove the crank in situ to have it reground, so out comes the engine.

I agree that a used engine is the only effective solution.

Used Engines, try salvage yards or better yet find a 900 94- or 9000 94- cheap and pull it for the engine.

Eeuroparts is a good parts source.

Good luck, welcome
He's looking at a t7 car so that would be a further hassle or effort on his part to mix and match all the t7 and t5 parts so his best bet would be to find a decent 9-5 or 9-3 engine b205 or b235 engine ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,023 Posts
He's looking at a t7 car so that would be a further hassle or effort on his part to mix and match all the t7 and t5 parts so his best bet would be to find a decent 9-5 or 9-3 engine b205 or b235 engine ;)
I disagree, if you are going to pull motors and do this big project, swapping over the head, timing cover and oil pan is little more and well worth the additional trouble. I'd want to pull any used motor apart anyways to know.

a decent T7 engine? :rolleyes: no such thing ;) And if there is... they are well over a 1000$
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
yeah i know but ive been told that built up properly a t7 will rev better flow better and get better mileage yet ive always stuck with t5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
My only problem with a used motor swap is, who knows what condition that thing is in. If I tear this one down and rebuild it (if rebuildable), I'll know the condition exactly.

I'm getting the car for $150 (If I decide to) and plan for it to be a daily if anything, so no mods. Just maintenance and restoration. My mod money goes into my VR4.

So I see there's some disagreement here, but would it actually be more cost effective to find a new (used) engine rather than have the crank ground + new bearings? Also, about that motor swap to a T5 engine (not sure what T5/T7 is, generation change I assume?), is it a pain in the ass or is it pretty straight forward?

All of this is, of course, IF it is a bearing. Again, thanks for the replies :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
My only problem with a used motor swap is, who knows what condition that thing is in. If I tear this one down and rebuild it (if rebuildable), I'll know the condition exactly.

I'm getting the car for $150 (If I decide to) and plan for it to be a daily if anything, so no mods. Just maintenance and restoration. My mod money goes into my VR4.

So I see there's some disagreement here, but would it actually be more cost effective to find a new (used) engine rather than have the crank ground + new bearings? Also, about that motor swap to a T5 engine (not sure what T5/T7 is, generation change I assume?), is it a pain in the ass or is it pretty straight forward?

All of this is, of course, IF it is a bearing. Again, thanks for the replies :)
it'd be much cheaper to go to a salvage yard and find a low mileage t5 engine and do a t5/t7 engine. trionic 5 and trionic 7 are the engine management systems and can be tuned via open sourced t5 suite or t7 suite. :D. b204 and 234 are t5 engines. b205 and b235 are t7 engines. plenty info is around on here about building t7 engine with a b234 block. also further work if wanted can be done by swapping in the valves, valve springs and cams from a t5 head into a t7 head :D. so the answer is buy t5 engine. and shit dude for 150 you can't pass that up. although i have lol there was a 02 9-3 i could have had for 500 and a 03 9-5 i could have had for 1000. the reason i didn't both where autos ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
it'd be much cheaper to go to a salvage yard and find a low mileage t5 engine and do a t5/t7 engine. trionic 5 and trionic 7 are the engine management systems and can be tuned via open sourced t5 suite or t7 suite. :D. b204 and 234 are t5 engines. b205 and b235 are t7 engines. plenty info is around on here about building t7 engine with a b234 block. also further work if wanted can be done by swapping in the valves, valve springs and cams from a t5 head into a t7 head :D. so the answer is buy t5 engine. and shit dude for 150 you can't pass that up. although i have lol there was a 02 9-3 i could have had for 500 and a 03 9-5 i could have had for 1000. the reason i didn't both where autos ;)
Ahh I see, looks like I'll have to do some reading up on that. Thanks for the detailed explanation!

I think if you were to buy this car and after it is all said and done, you could find a car now that runs well and work on that. Saabs have down so much in price that I would cancell this idea.
Too late, I bought it and drove it home (only 2 miles). Will pull the pan and update with my findings (so then you can all help me decide what to do! ;))
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,023 Posts
I've seen pistons auger into cylinder walls after spinning a bearing. That adds a lot of expense; machine shop boring and new oversized pistons. To determine the cheapest/most effective route to get back on the road it will all depend how much damage was done. You won't know til your knee deep!

Finding a used motor you trust can be difficult, but there are good ways to gauge the wear and tear of these motors beyond just mileage, the sump screen tells a story, you can inspect the used motor throughly. Also I've bought used engines from fellow enthusiasts here and other SAAB sites and have always been grateful as they have been what they say they are.

For a 150$ you can't go wrong :)

Cheers for jumping right in. I think you will enjoy the project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
This will be a pic heavy post so I apologize in advance to 56kers :p

Got the pan off tonight. Ended up completely removing the 3 subframe bolts along with unbolting the strut and prying with a pry bar to get enough room to get it out. I know a couple of you said you can just loosen the 2 subframe bolts, but it just wasn't happening for me. I'll chalk it up to my inexperience with this car. :D

So once the pan was down, the first things I noticed were these thin chunks of metal, as thin as aluminum foil just chillin in the pan.



The bottom of the pan looked like this:



So I pulled the pick-up out to see if it being clogged caused the issue. Just a bunch of tiny metal chunks, but no goop:


(From the looks of the underside of the car, the oil ran low due to a leak somewhere. Because there's oil on the passenger side of the gas tank.)

From there I decided to see exactly what the issue was and started shaking the rods. No play on cylinders 1-3, but number 4...I believe holy crap were the words that came from my mouth.

At first it seemed as if the bearing had disintegrated because I couldn't find it. Problem was, it was as thin as aluminum foil, hence the chunks I had found earlier, and stuck on the crank. Took a screwdriver and worked the bearing halves off the crank as one piece. Quite a sight to see:







Never seen that before. :eek:

The crank journal is scored pretty good but not gouged as far as I can tell. Seems no worse than the last spun bearing crank I had machined, which is running great at the moment. I'll have to take some measurements and get some prices to see if it's possible, and if it's worth it, to have it machined.

And finally some pictures of the car!


On jackstands but you get the idea :p

Interior is extremely nice for an 11 yr old.

Half-torn apart but you get the idea. :p

Is that the 'rare' heated rear seats I read about?

That's all for now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,077 Posts
Damn dude, that's quite the mess of metal coming out of the pan. I wonder what caused that? Doesn't seem like oil starvation, since that screen looked ok to me. Even if the motor is a total loss, you scored big with such a clean looking interior. Nice car, especially at that price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Question again, would an engine from a '99 9-3 be a direct swap (found another car cheap with a good motor)? Not having a whole lot of luck finding this engine yet, what others will work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Question again, would an engine from a '99 9-3 be a direct swap (found another car cheap with a good motor)? Not having a whole lot of luck finding this engine yet, what others will work?
Yes, not to mention it is a better engine (less prone to sludge, easier to tune exct.). As long as you get the whole car, engine ECU wires, then it will be a straight forward swap.

oh and, what the hell is up with the shitty mismatched hubcaps, specifically passenger front
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Yes, not to mention it is a better engine (less prone to sludge, easier to tune exct.). As long as you get the whole car, engine ECU wires, then it will be a straight forward swap.

oh and, what the hell is up with the shitty mismatched hubcaps, specifically passenger front
Oh good, is there a write-up or how-to on the swap? Or a list of everything that needs to be swapped just for reference?

Couldn't tell you about the mismatched hubcaps. Even if they were matching, hubcaps would still be shitty. That's the least of my concerns at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Oh good, is there a write-up or how-to on the swap? Or a list of everything that needs to be swapped just for reference
I can't think of an official write up, but it should be rather straight forward. Here's the info I can shed on it: Mounts will all be the same, ECU must be swapped, there are plenty of write ups on this but it is in the passenger floor well behind the glovebox, Wiring Harness must be swapped

Yeah honestly it would be hardly any different then swapping in a new T7 motor. There is a write-up on how to remove + put in an engine here (from an NG900, but it is more or less the same thing, T5 motor).

You seem to already have mechanical skills, so this should be pretty easy for you honestly.

PS - might as well swap it to 5 SPEED
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top