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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went down to Iowa to visit Ced and we made quite the concoction. Now it's just a start but it seems to work quite nicely. After a few days of driving i have really noticed a hge difference in sound, gas mileage and performance gain.. even over my Optiflow system that i had in.

The CAI gave me 1-2 mpg difference in normal driving.. but its far from normal knowing how i accellerate at any given opportunity.

Also, the sound is just amazing.. a little bit throatier, but for us T7's who cant have BOV, it really makes our BPV louder. Its amazing.

I also noticed that i am boosting maybe 2 psi more with this in.. keep in mind i do also have exhaust, but then agian it wasnt boosting this much with it b4.

Ced and I are still trying to make changes to it to make it look better and I am going to post pics of it tomorrow I believe. And when i get a little more accomplished i will post more pictures and try and get a few more made for other people.

Note: It's kindof tricky to get it down in the fender so bear with it, but when it's all said and done its worth it. I will be making kits that have all the parts that you need to do it and it will come with instructions, but it will be your job to do the work of getting it in there. It's a little tricky but not too bad.
 

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NICE!
how much you think the kit will cost? what type of filter are you using?
Definately want to see pictures too:)
~bring it on~
 

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HNNLIC
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Not sure yet of the costs. Since the design needs to be altered slightly from our first one...AJ and I may use different materials thus changing the price.

Once the design is a little better, the installation should be alot easier.

The gains seem promising, especially from stock. So this isn't just an intake that doesn't show any gaines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Here it is..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
We just need to get better silicone connectors for looks and a few other minor adjustments so it'll be easier to install
 

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HNNLIC
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Still lookin good 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
MORE PICS!!
 

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:lol: I hope you know that if you're boosting more in a T7 it's because the air is less dense and it needs to boost higher to reach it's set mg/combust value.

I noticed a mpg increase with a shorty intake which I have since removed. After just putting a new Saab stock filter in after the modified intake had gotten dirty I saw the same increase I saw (and same mileage) I saw in the first place with the modded filter. :lol: Be suprised what just a CLEAN filter will do for mileage!

I really don't think there is much to gain from an upgraded filter on T7 when at or near stock. You can't fool the engine into taking in more air by making it cooler, or by making it denser some other way because the air mass meter will compensate and always send exactly the same air into the engine if it can. You might get more knock resillience from colder air, but a CAI won't be any colder than the stock setup which also takes cool air from outside the engine bay.

Love the sound though. :twisted:

Adrian~
 

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HNNLIC
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Way to burst a bubble!!!

Well if you think about it that way then, whats the point of buying ANY intake? I feel the gains are there, at least for those who want to upgrade their ECU. This is still a requirement for those wanting an ECU upgrade.
 

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On a T5 engine it may very well give a performance boost. But on T7 it´s just not possible. And for the lowering of intake temperature, I don´t think it´s worth the job. As I recall I saw some figures that lowering the temperature 10degrees Celcius gave a performance boost of 6hp.
 

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bollman I agree, it will not give a boost to a T7 STOCK in actual HP, it will aid in speeding up spool time but not anymore than a normal short ram. but as ced stated, when and if used with an upgrade ECU it could help alot. One other thing that COULD be a plus and may not matter that much but being a COLD AIR intake it will no suck in hot engine air and there for will keep the engine temps down a little in a cold enviroment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well seeing as it is my car and i know how it drove stock.. i WILL say that there is a very noticeable difference.. the stock steup is so restricting its rediculous.

with only that intake and exhaust i can keep up with my friends 97 540i which was dyno'd at 290 rear wheel hp

and i pulled on this civic hatch that weighed 2000lbs (1,150 less than me) and it had the japanese integra type r motor and other mods as well giving it around 220hp in that tiny car..

meaning i know i couldnt keep up wiht those cars stock because i for one raced my friends bimmer and it ruined me before and now i stay with him..

also ced can agree with the power gains i've gotten from it because he was in my car and was extremely suprised at how fast it was running with just those 2 mods

all in all, i am going to have to disagree. i DEFINITELY get more performance with my intake setup over the stock setup.
 

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When I got my Viggen the previous owner had done alot of air flow work, intercooler, free flow muffler, race cat, turbo inlet pipe but still had the stock intake. When I put on my aftermarket intake I did notice that the turbo spooled up faster and at high speeds the car could get more air to the engine there for it was getting to higher speeds faster but my turbo was actully being cut back by the ECU, my neadle will travel ALMOST into the red and then come back being limited by the ECU. so you can tell your getting absolute max performance for the ECU just its not that a cold air intake will do anything super with out an ECU. But I think its worth it just to reduce turbo spool times.
 

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The "seat of your pants dyno" will be affected by any modification that you want to work.

You have to understand that T7 can't be cheated into taking in more air than it wants to. In fact, often with the accellerator COMPLETELY pressed down, T7 won't even open the throttle butterfly completely. ;)

The only way I know of to really get more power on a T7 is to get rid of any knocking during summer months on low octane. But then you only get stock power, instead of less than stock.

Some internal modifications like ceramic coatings, will give you more hp on the same amount of air/fuel and T7 would not react to them. Also better lubricants might be worth 1 or 2 horses.

Otherwise though, T7 is going to make the power that T7 wants to make, and it is bigger, stronger, an faster than you, so don't F with it!

:lol:

Adrian~
 

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yes.... that seems to be what everyone just said.
 

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I think the benefit of having more air readily available to the turbo is being convoluted in max power this downward adaptation that. A car is not only fast at full power. It is fast GETTING to full power (even if what exactly full power is, is dependant on many variables). Take two Viggen's and put them side by side. Both have stock ECU's but one has stock hardware and another has a 3" turbo back exhaust and an open intake. Have them cruising next to each other in 5th gear at 2000 rpm's...typical highway cruising....have them both apply full throttle at the same time and see who walks who. Sure they might "peak" at the same power levels but which car is getting to "peak" faster?? The car that can move air in and exhaust out faster will get to "peak" power faster and THAT is the benefit of breathing mods on a T7. Unfortunately there is the pesky problem of running lean and knock destroying an engine.
 

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xaamottomaax said:
The car that can move air in and exhaust out faster will get to "peak" power faster and THAT is the benefit of breathing mods on a T7. Unfortunately there is the pesky problem of running lean and knock destroying an engine.
xaamottomaax, are you suggesting that just a bigger exhaust and intake can cause the car to lean out? I was thinking of adding either a JR or K&N drop n filter to complement my stage 1 ECU, (if it ever arrives this summer!). or maybe a BSR optiflow. Would that potentially be a problem, even though I ALWAYS run at least 93 or higher octane gas?
 

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An exhaust WILL make a T5 car run lean-er than it did before. This is due to the effect on VE (Volumetric Efficiency) ... it can cause potential "problems" with T7 ... but it shouldn't alter the air/fuel ratio once the MAF sensor is not being corrected by the MAP sensor (which happens during spool up according to the WIS, "Trionic" disagrees with me and the WIS on that point though).

It's true that an exhaust and intake can make the car spool quicker, however both "Trionic" and I agree that for whatever reason it is possible for T7 to "learn down" because of mods to the engine. Thus, while you may spool quicker, you may actually LOSE horsepower.

This has been seen in SOME cars on the dyno. And I'm not 100% certain all cars will learn down. (Nick T's did not) But I am certain that there is potential for it to learn down. Since a Viggen spools pretty quickly stock I wouldn't alter the exhaust on it without software.

An intercooler and exhaust combined has been shown in some cases to make it run lean as well, but I believe an intercooler alone should work fairly well. It would increase spool up without actually altering the car's Volumetric Efficiency. I believe that altering the Volumetric Efficiency is where the problem in "learning down" originates. So just an intercooler may be safe.

My theory (which again is not what "Trionic" agrees with) is that because the MAP sensor does not "notice" exhaust changes, while the MAF (Mass AirFlow) sensor DOES notice them, when you put an exhaust on the car the two sensors are in conflict during spool up. This could obviously cause some problems. Whether it's the cause of learning down on not is unknown, but unless the WIS is flat out wrong, there could potentially be a change in a/f ratio under spool up because of it, when knock sensing is critical.

Also, because the ECU would get bad information about the mg/combust from two sensors which are in argument, it could cause other problems.

Some people run exhaust sucessfully though.

If you want to see Trionic's oppinion on the matter, you can go to SaabScene in the performance section. There's a very long discussion, but don't expect much evidence.

Adrian~
 
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