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SAAB now owned by Chinese

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#22 ·
Chinese takeover is a necessary evil here. They can steer the brand towards what it should be: value-laden intro-luxury cars, priced in the high teens to high 20's, much like Subaru, Nissan, VW, etc. If they can hit this price-point, while creating a perception of "cheap quality/luxury," they have a shot to sell alot of cars and actually compete. People don't realize that the market segment they target is ridicuosly competitive and brand loyal. People aren't jumping out of a 42k Beemer/Audi for a first year 9-5 or 9-3, even if they are xwd. They need to hit the lower markets where it is easier and less costly to switch automakers....where buying is easy and more frequent.

By doing such and scaling everything down, they can build like Hyundai has in the past 5-10 years, moving slowly over a few years, creeping up the prestige ladder little by little. That is their best chance of remaining alive.
 
#23 ·
Good news.

A new hatch would be awesome.

And to hell with AWD... it is the most overrated thing ever in auto history. It chews up drivetrain parts and bogs down fuel economy between the added weight and extra moving parts. Winter driving? Every SAAB I've owned has been unstoppable in snow, and I live in the friggen sticks on New Hampshire.
Not necessarily opposed to it as an option for those that want lousy MPG and don't mind paying the extra for it, but god help me please don't make it standard equipment.
 
#24 ·
9000Andrew said:
Chinese takeover is a necessary evil here. They can steer the brand towards what it should be: value-laden intro-luxury cars, priced in the high teens to high 20's, much like Subaru, Nissan, VW, etc. If they can hit this price-point, while creating a perception of "cheap quality/luxury," they have a shot to sell alot of cars and actually compete. People don't realize that the market segment they target is ridicuosly competitive and brand loyal. People aren't jumping out of a 42k Beemer/Audi for a first year 9-5 or 9-3, even if they are xwd. They need to hit the lower markets where it is easier and less costly to switch automakers....where buying is easy and more frequent.

By doing such and scaling everything down, they can build like Hyundai has in the past 5-10 years, moving slowly over a few years, creeping up the prestige ladder little by little. That is their best chance of remaining alive.
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this seems to make sense
 
#25 ·
Cark said:
And to hell with AWD... it is the most overrated thing ever in auto history. It chews up drivetrain parts and bogs down fuel economy between the added weight and extra moving parts. Winter driving? Every SAAB I've owned has been unstoppable in snow, and I live in the friggen sticks on New Hampshire.
Not necessarily opposed to it as an option for those that want lousy MPG and don't mind paying the extra for it, but god help me please don't make it standard equipment.
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* golf clap *

Totally Agree. Coming from a WRX, having AWD was totally rad for about 15 days in the last year.

I'll take my MPG every day over that, hands down.
 
#26 ·
Just yesterday saw a Derossers(sp?) Automobile Sales report, for Canada only though.
It reported on Sales across the nation of luxury vehicles.
Top of list was Mercedes with 5000+.
Dead (?) Last was Saab with 27! .Volvo moved 700, as reference perspective.
The Fat Lady has just about finished singing.. don't you think?
 
#27 ·
bare said:
The Fat Lady has just about finished singing.. don't you think?
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Lol, no. Not after the massive infusion of cash Saab just got from Chinese investors and the Antonov real estate deal. Plus, Saab hasn't had a stable presence (anywhere, but especially) in Canada for some time now.
 
#28 ·
jk88 said:
Lol, no. Not after the massive infusion of cash Saab just got from Chinese investors and the Antonov real estate deal. Plus, Saab hasn't had a stable presence (anywhere, but especially) in Canada for some time now.
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For at least three years. I remember looking at where the dealers were when we headed out on the Trans Labrador Highway almost three years ago now and there was only one east of Montreal - Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I will say this, with their current reduced CPO program combined with hit-or-miss attention at dealerships, I haven't had all that great of an experience quality-wise with the '07 9-3 SC Aero. The car didn't qualify for their CPO program but was sold as one anyway and now they're fighting me on fixing the things that should have been remedied before it went up for sale.

That and, even around NYC, having to travel at least 45 minutes (and in some cases past shuttered Saab dealers) to get the car serviced is rough. I haven't given up yet, but I can no longer recommend that people buy these cars. At least not the newer ones.

And that feeling sucks.
 
#29 ·
Swade's bullet points and comments are very interesting.
Manufacturing will shift to China with SAAB remaining the design, development and testing hub in Sweden (with a small manufacturing capability, per Swade). They are undoubtedly looking at major shifts in production labor.
The whole affair is being told to the general public as a strategic diversification of ownership move to allow Vladimir Antonov easier access into the ownership group.
But why, if long term ownership is ensured by chinese interests?
I also wonder where this leaves Victor Muller.

Here's how I think SAAB should approach 4wd - front wheel drive with electric rear drive. They've been on this trail before, they have the expertise and the demand is definitely there.
 
#30 ·
For the short term, I think this is a decent move to keep the company alive and give it the necessary capital to do something. However, I don't like the idea of a long term ownership by China. In the end, they just want volume, with quality coming up later. Sadly, the world has come to expect low prices first. They have made progress in the last decade. Not everything coming from China is total crap, but having that label on it doesn't scream high quality either. Notice there aren't any Chinese cars being exported to us.
 
#32 ·
I don't think abandonment of the factory in Trollhattan is part of any plan. I believe they are simply adding (cheaper) capacity in China for these Chinese models. I haven't read anything about their plans for these new models, but I doubt the western world will see any of them imported, except for maybe the 9-1 which could be built and priced competitively as a Chinese export. The 9-5 is already big enough to cancel a need for -6 and -7 models.
 
#33 ·
jk88 said:
I don't think abandonment of the factory in Trollhattan is part of any plan. I believe they are simply adding (cheaper) capacity in China for these Chinese models. I haven't read anything about their plans for these new models, but I doubt the western world will see any of them imported, except for maybe the 9-1 which could be built and priced competitively as a Chinese export. The 9-5 is already big enough to cancel a need for -6 and -7 models.
Click to expand...
A press conference report, routed through China Auto Web

The company's Hangzhou factory, where Saab cars are said to be made, covers an area of about 66.7 hectares and has a designed annual capacity of 300,000 units. It currently makes the L5 sedan. According to Mr. Pang, an initial annual capacity of 160,000 Saab cars will be created here, which will eventual grow to 200,000 units; about half of the products will be sold overseas. And he envisions all major Saab models come to Hangzhou: the 9-4, 9-5, and the to-be-released new 9-3.
​

Saab's projected worldwide sales were only 65-85,000, so this points strongly to the Trollhattan plant being closed or limited to a design and testing facility.

Saab as we know it is dead.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
China gets an unfair rep for low quality imho. These are people who either invented, or perfected, things like modern metalurgy and of all things, the porcelain. They are easily capable of producing whatever you need, and at whatever price point you need.

Just so happens that nobody is requesting high quality from them. But if needed, I'm sure they are more capable of great quality than most other nations.

I know this is me being an optimist. But its too soon to write this new organization off as a failure.
 
#38 ·
No MSG with that please. And can you hold the child labor too? Easy with the lead in the paint OK?

What this is doing is making me think kinder thoughts about General Murders and Henry Fraud. If I am going to pour smoke into the sky at least I will be walking in the plant gates with my lunch pail. We go through this whole thing about Nike and child labor and Mike Vick and doing what is right. Then we jump into our SUV and fill up with anything but BP or Nixxon and go about our business. I am confused because no matter what way I turn or no matter what I do it seems to be the wrong thing to someone.
 
#40 ·
On a recent business trip I flew on three different, near new Boeing 737s. Every single one of them had a big MADE IN CHINA label attached to their doors. China can make quality products, of course the price for those is higher than your average Chinese junk product as I am sure Boeing quality control guys in China are very well paid, and most likely Americans. Sure, most cars made in China nowadays are utter carp, but that doesn't mean they have to be.
 
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