How bad are the 99 viggen pistons? and where can I get new ones?
Viggen pistons?
Boxerchip
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forgive me Boxer...lol...I can't help but laugh a little. I noticed your post about pistons...then the exhaust housing, and then you ask how to change the thermostat....I just lost it, and had to apologize. I just wondered if you noticed the irony of your question, or was that on purpose.Boxerchip said:
all in fun...
regards
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Over the last few days, I tore off my hood fabric, wrapped my pipes..and added what I call "Greddy Intercooler Tape" over my intercooler.
Awesome ideas guys, keep 'em coming. I will order the thermostat as well. And for any nay-sayers, One of the number one mods for a Grand National is 160degree T-stat. I guess we will settle with the 180 one. 8) I have wondered about a diff t-stat, and Adrian came through.
Awesome ideas guys, keep 'em coming. I will order the thermostat as well. And for any nay-sayers, One of the number one mods for a Grand National is 160degree T-stat. I guess we will settle with the 180 one. 8) I have wondered about a diff t-stat, and Adrian came through.
You should note though, that with the cooler thermostat the engine may still run as hot as it did before if there isn't much airflow over the radiator. On the highway is where the biggest benefits will be. Since our cars are FWD, that's where our power is really needed anyway. 8)
When the A/C is of, on T5 and T7 the cooling fan kicks on at 212F regardless of t-stat. I wanna see if I can get the dealer to change mine to 200F via Tech 2 ... just another thing on the to-do list.
Also, if Dr Boost says there is something wrong with the Viggen intercooler, then there probably is. What I meant by my previous statements is not to judge and intercooler just by it's size, and the fact that it is a factory unit. There is probably some internal flaw to it, because its size, shape, and flow rate is OK even for a lightly modded engine ...
.... I guess for whatever reason it just doesn't cool as well as it should.
Either way ... ducting ducting ducting! Even with the Viggen intercooler, ducting the air so that it has to go through the intercooler has made a significant difference for me, especially when I hold boost for long periods at high speed.
Keeep the ideas coming!!
Adrian~
Edit: This week or next an Aero-space engineering friend of mine (he makes specialty aerospace and automotive equipment) is going to teach me to TIG weld. So after I get some practice, there may be a very nice new intercooler in the front of my Viggen,. I'll let you guys know if it's sucessful. A core that is equal to, or better than, anything I've seen on the market can be bought for around $400 from Bell Intercoolers .... just a matter of TIG welding the ends properly. We'll see how it works out.
When the A/C is of, on T5 and T7 the cooling fan kicks on at 212F regardless of t-stat. I wanna see if I can get the dealer to change mine to 200F via Tech 2 ... just another thing on the to-do list.
Also, if Dr Boost says there is something wrong with the Viggen intercooler, then there probably is. What I meant by my previous statements is not to judge and intercooler just by it's size, and the fact that it is a factory unit. There is probably some internal flaw to it, because its size, shape, and flow rate is OK even for a lightly modded engine ...
.... I guess for whatever reason it just doesn't cool as well as it should.
Either way ... ducting ducting ducting! Even with the Viggen intercooler, ducting the air so that it has to go through the intercooler has made a significant difference for me, especially when I hold boost for long periods at high speed.
Keeep the ideas coming!!Adrian~
Edit: This week or next an Aero-space engineering friend of mine (he makes specialty aerospace and automotive equipment) is going to teach me to TIG weld. So after I get some practice, there may be a very nice new intercooler in the front of my Viggen,. I'll let you guys know if it's sucessful. A core that is equal to, or better than, anything I've seen on the market can be bought for around $400 from Bell Intercoolers .... just a matter of TIG welding the ends properly. We'll see how it works out.
i would just like to say there is nothing wrong with the vigeen intercooler's cooling, it is very efficient i mean touch the opposite end tanks whenever u get a chance after a long ride, u will see what i mean, the problem with it is that it doesnt flow enough
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82 T stat, slightly cheaper.
http://www.eeuroparts.com/(mtdogt55c5q31c55elww1uq2)/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=8817538G
Edit, with shipping its essentually the same price as thesaabsite.
http://www.eeuroparts.com/(mtdogt55c5q31c55elww1uq2)/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=8817538G
Edit, with shipping its essentually the same price as thesaabsite.
Any specific reason why? I got a good deal on a new 4 bar FPR from ebay a few monthes ago so that's the main reaon I went 4 bar. I know that bosch III whites or greens are the way to go, and that higher pressure is really a stop gap, but you can reliably get 20+% more fuel out of the system with a 1 bar increase. Bosch style III injectors are pretty good at handling over pressure aswell. Incidently I found out today that forced Performance can rebuild a td04hl with an 18 or 19 T compressor wheel, and a 6cm housing for $595. I think it may be turbo upgrade time just in time to go along with the maptun ECU I am thinking about.
Firstly, never use higher fuel pressure with the stock ECU, it wont work and this is a fact. The Trionic 7 is will compensate this via fuel adaption and you will end up with the same A/F under WOT or in some cases the A/F can also be leaner.
You will need a ECU that has MAPs for the specified fuel pressure other wise just forget about it.
Secondly the fuel system will be on the limit if you install the 4 bar Fpr, because under boost your fuel pressure will be 4.0bar +boost. Stock fuel pump does not work to well with pressure level ower 5bar.
A 3.5bar would probably work better, if you need more pressure. You should check the need in a dyno and make the nesseccary corrections after it is proven that there is a need for more fuel pressure or bigger injectors, not in for hand. This is the way things are "normally" done.
You will need a ECU that has MAPs for the specified fuel pressure other wise just forget about it.
Secondly the fuel system will be on the limit if you install the 4 bar Fpr, because under boost your fuel pressure will be 4.0bar +boost. Stock fuel pump does not work to well with pressure level ower 5bar.
A 3.5bar would probably work better, if you need more pressure. You should check the need in a dyno and make the nesseccary corrections after it is proven that there is a need for more fuel pressure or bigger injectors, not in for hand. This is the way things are "normally" done.
Clearly the FPR is intended for use with a stage 3 + ECU. For now it's sitting on my desk. It'll go in once I get an ECU upgrade. I contacted nordic about this size FPR, and they indicated it should work fine with their ECU. I am leaning twards maptun right now, but want to see the pricin nick comes out with on the nordic tune.
A higher FPR could, in theory, improve fuel mileage. But again that's just in theory. The idea being that the higher pressure would atomize the fuel better.
However, higher fuel pressures are generally bad for the injectors and there is a better solution.
If you seeing fluctuations in fuel pressure in the fuel rail, what you need is a larger rail, not a different FPR. The rail acts a buffer so that the drop in pressure when fuel is dumped out one of the injectors does not significantly affect the pressure of the other injectors, and thus the fuel injected by the other injectors.
Bit off-topic from the Viggen pistons. IMHO, if you're aiming to upgrade your Viggen, just start saving for pistons. If you don't break them, great, now you have some extra money in the bank for some other repairs should they come up. If they do break, they hey, you have new pistons and can now aim for higher power levels.
Also, IMHO, while people are quick to diss T7 for it's notoriously easily broken pistons, rarely is it mentioned that the head flows better, the con-rod ratio is better than on T5 2.3L's (the 2.0's of all Saabs have great con-rod ratios) ... and the T7 engine's internals are lighter, which helps with vibration and fuel mileage as there is reduced linear accelleration-force wasted each revolution.
The stock pistons are also anti-friction coated, which is something I'd reccomend having done to any aftermarket pistons you purchase. Ceramic coating the top is a double edged sword though. If you keep the stock 9.3:1 compression ratio, it will be harder to run higher boost, but if you lower the compression ratio it might be desireable as it makes the pistons stonger by keeping them cooler, and keeping an insulating layer when detonation occurs.
Just more food for thought.
Adrian~
However, higher fuel pressures are generally bad for the injectors and there is a better solution.
If you seeing fluctuations in fuel pressure in the fuel rail, what you need is a larger rail, not a different FPR. The rail acts a buffer so that the drop in pressure when fuel is dumped out one of the injectors does not significantly affect the pressure of the other injectors, and thus the fuel injected by the other injectors.
Bit off-topic from the Viggen pistons. IMHO, if you're aiming to upgrade your Viggen, just start saving for pistons. If you don't break them, great, now you have some extra money in the bank for some other repairs should they come up. If they do break, they hey, you have new pistons and can now aim for higher power levels.
Also, IMHO, while people are quick to diss T7 for it's notoriously easily broken pistons, rarely is it mentioned that the head flows better, the con-rod ratio is better than on T5 2.3L's (the 2.0's of all Saabs have great con-rod ratios) ... and the T7 engine's internals are lighter, which helps with vibration and fuel mileage as there is reduced linear accelleration-force wasted each revolution.
The stock pistons are also anti-friction coated, which is something I'd reccomend having done to any aftermarket pistons you purchase. Ceramic coating the top is a double edged sword though. If you keep the stock 9.3:1 compression ratio, it will be harder to run higher boost, but if you lower the compression ratio it might be desireable as it makes the pistons stonger by keeping them cooler, and keeping an insulating layer when detonation occurs.
Just more food for thought.
Adrian~
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758 Posts
why would it be harder to run higher boost?
So what have we gained from this? as far as best performance and not having to worry about busting a piston (assuming im looking at 400HP give or take) what would be the best solution?
Also again off topic but what all would need to be done to upgrade my fuel system?
Ive got a new FPR (for stage 3) and ill get new injectors with a stage 4 but what else could I get to make my fuel system the best it can be?
So what have we gained from this? as far as best performance and not having to worry about busting a piston (assuming im looking at 400HP give or take) what would be the best solution?
Also again off topic but what all would need to be done to upgrade my fuel system?
Ive got a new FPR (for stage 3) and ill get new injectors with a stage 4 but what else could I get to make my fuel system the best it can be?
Ceramic coatings generally increase the heat in the combustion chamber, which makes the engine more likely to detonate. Usually detonation is the limiting factor on boost. However, it usually reduces both oil and coolant temps, and if you're willing to invest in Methanol/Water injection, you should be able to run all the boost you want without detonation, ceramic coatings or not. (Note that there are exceptions to this, and WI is still not usually as reliably as it should be. But when properly excecuted [just ask K Yankton about that] it can be extremely effective.)Boxerchip said:
Ceramic coatings also protect the metal that is coated significantly. When used in the aerospace industry the difference in failure analysys between coated and non-coated parts is drastic. But it doesn't help you any if it causes more detonation, because then, while your engine is stronger, you have less power.
The more heat you take out of the system (through exhaust scavenging, intake tuning, and cooler coolant and oil temps) the stronger your engine will be.
No idea on the fuel system other than what most of the tuners reccomend. Larger injectors are always good, and the Saab's stock fuel rail isn't small, but not excessively large either. I've never heard of it being upgraded on a 9-3 Viggen before 400 bhp.
Might try e-mailing a tuner if you have any serious questions. :-?
Adrian~
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anyone who has a question about the stock viggen pistions being weak.. PM my friend Steve on Saabcentral his name is SteveL on that.. or get onto Racersden.net and PM him he posts as NvigR8.. he cracked a stock piston on his 00 viggen.. he was running stage 3 SQR ECU with over 300 hp
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