why do people speak so highly of the Holset hx35`s or Holset turbos in general ? - The Saab Link Forums

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Old 03-01-2013, 05:19 AM   #1
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why do people speak so highly of the Holset hx35`s or Holset turbos in general ?

My main interest in cars is...hell,,,German l guess and anything with forced induction, my favorite website is "bring a trailer" http://bringatrailer.com/ check it out,awesome way to start the day! anyhow what`s the deal with Holset turbo`s and Saabs? They have a great reputation and low price,my favorite combination and lf l do a turbo upgrade it`ll just have to be a topmount(no other choice,l need the style points right now )Can anyone fill me in on the virtues of the Holset HX35 as a top mount or another applicable Holset to use as part of my stage 3/4 Viggen build? as always,any help appreciated.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:13 AM   #2
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because they're cheap.
That is all.
They're shitty, heavy turbos that take forever to spool, but they're cheap.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:14 AM   #3
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No stage 3/4 is going to cut it with a holset, you will have to go through the motor first to add one of those beasts to a viggen.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:39 AM   #4
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Cheap and can take a beating. Hell I have a friend with a 1st gen cummins with 350+K on it and still the original turbo never rebuilt or anything doesn't burn oil no shaft play, and he isn't nice to it always barking it never letting it cool or anything. He even sucked a paper towel threw it by mistake didn't mess it up or anything. Plus they come with a anti-surge housing.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:43 AM   #5
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because they're cheap.
That is all.
They're shitty, heavy turbos that take forever to spool, but they're cheap.
Nonsense. Reliable information is hard to find/confirm on them, but what I've been able to gather is that they generally have wide and efficient compressor sides and the hot sides are efficient as well. For their size and output they spool well too. Plus they're tough. Plus the sizes we would use are available as cast-offs from the diesel crowd, which makes them inexpensive.

There's no reason to think all these million mile heavy duty truck and industrial engine manufacturers would use an inefficient shitty turbo. Fuel costs over the life of those types of vehicles is a huge consideration.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:17 AM   #6
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They are by no means shitty. Incredibly tough, but inexpensive to make 400+whp.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #7
 
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Nonsense. Reliable information is hard to find/confirm on them, but what I've been able to gather is that they generally have wide and efficient compressor sides and the hot sides are efficient as well. For their size and output they spool well too. Plus they're tough. Plus the sizes we would use are available as cast-offs from the diesel crowd, which makes them inexpensive.

There's no reason to think all these million mile heavy duty truck and industrial engine manufacturers would use an inefficient shitty turbo. Fuel costs over the life of those types of vehicles is a huge consideration.
Gotta agree with this, despite going the GT30 route years ago.

Some of the small-frame Holsets spool very close to the ball-bearing turbos, often making the same boost levels within 200-300 RPM -- and at half the cost. The rep of Holsets being laggy likely came from folks who found a cheap truck turbo and tried to use it on a small displacement engine.

And no, you can't throw a Holset on a Viggen without upgrading the pistons, not unless you have an overwhelming desire to poke a hole in your block...
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:18 AM   #8
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[email protected] T7 motors...More to point; as someone who is seriously considering going up in turbos...again, I've looked into the Holset option fairly extensively. A lot of their reputed issues are due to exhaust-housing misappropriation. The Hx35 needs a split header and is fairly large for a 2.0(higher rpm required). The Hy has a single-scroll, smaller, hot-side and is purportedly a better wheel combo for these cars, FWIW.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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Cheap, bullet proof, twin scroll, great spool for the size and efficient per psi. What I didn't spend in turbo I could spend on a more purpose-built manifold and wastegate. I would go as far as to compare them to the Borg Warner turbos. From what I've seen something like an S256 make in power and spool, I don't make that claim for nothing.

DSM guys have smaller exhaust housings that do even more for spool. Unless you're changing out your cams for something larger, you're never gonna max out the exhaust housing anyway so I think an HX35 with one of the smaller housings would be an incredible combo on a Saab.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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shitty was a bad word.
Poorly matched for Saabs would be better. I bet there's less than 3 saabs out there that are built appropriately for a holset's range.

They're made for high-compression, big CI engines.
They're junkyard cheap, though.. and people seem to love 'em.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #11
 
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shitty was a bad word.
Poorly matched for Saabs would be better. I bet there's less than 3 saabs out there that are built appropriately for a holset's range.

They're made for high-compression, big CI engines.
They're junkyard cheap, though.. and people seem to love 'em.
I'd agree with that....

There were a few early builds of guys in EU and the UK that were puzzling. High hp and tq numbers but then the maps showed they were likely lag pigs until 4,500K RPM. On the other hand, Vigge had a couple of really well-matched setups that showed a well-matched Holset could get damn close to GTBB spool for a shitload fewer kroner...and was strong like bull...
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #12
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Yeah, there's not a single person here that needs a 70 lb/min turbo. Yeah, it's cool to have a giant turbo, but just about every person here would be fine with a 60-1 which would have almost no lag and yield the same numbers In the top-end. Hell, a 46 lb/min evoiii 16g would make about 400 whp on our cars and be 100% streetable and fit in the stock location.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #13
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thanks for the information,pretty much what l expected l guess.l`ve always been a skeptic regarding the compatability of diesel turbochargers on gasoline engines.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:41 PM   #14
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Yeah I admit I'd like to build my head to get better use out of it but that's been more of a money thing. Later on down the road I will do so so that I can pull as much from it as I can. A bit closer to the 500whp side which I would be fine with for a 56mm turbo.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:52 AM   #15
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because they're cheap.
That is all.
They're shitty, heavy turbos that take forever to spool, but they're cheap.
holsets are actully really terrific turbos, just many people who have them have not set them up correctly!

they are incredibly durable, they are easy to work with, they have terrific housings, and easy to use bolt paterns.

Personally, i like the hy35 better, its a way better fit for these cars!! i was tuning a 9000 with one the other day, and we were making 10psi below 3000rpms 10psi on an hy35 is fast. what happens after that is really fast.

also, that car didnt even have things like equal length headers, or any of those goodies. which drasticly help spool.

im not sure why people are skeptical, getting a turbo that was made by a reputable factory and tested on a car means that its strong, and probably built to a higher slandered than anything garret has produced in the last 15 years.

seriously, check out hy35s
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g96nt View Post
shitty was a bad word.
Poorly matched for Saabs would be better. I bet there's less than 3 saabs out there that are built appropriately for a holset's range.

They're made for high-compression, big CI engines.
They're junkyard cheap, though.. and people seem to love 'em.
your still really not looking at the whole picture here,,,, those big CI engines also rev to 3000 rpms max,, so these turbos need to enguage on them at 1200rpms!! to really be usable. never-mind that many Cummings people consider these turbos "too small" for the truck.

i really wish some hy35 guys would post vids of there turbo spooling....
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mike d View Post
holsets are actully really terrific turbos, just many people who have them have not set them up correctly!

they areee incredibly durable, they are easy to work with, they have terrific housings, and easy to use bolt paterns.

Personally, i like the hy35 better, its a way better fit for these cars!! i was tuning a 9000 with one the other day, and we were making 10psi below 3000rpms 10psi on an hy35 is fast. what happens after that is really fast.

also, that car didnt even have things like equal length headers, or any of those goodies. which drasticly help spool.

im not sure why people are skeptical, getting a turbo that was made by a reputable factory and tested on a car means that its strong, and probably built to a higher slandered than anything garret has produced in the last 15 years.

seriously, check out hy35s
This too. back when I was doing mine I couldn't decide between the 2 different ones, there was 1 guy building his with an Hy and it seemed promising because of how much smaller exhaust housing was but the owner seemed to have fallen off and so I never found any real results with it online. Especially for with Saab's so I just went in the direction that I did. If you know of anyone with an HY that has put it on the dyno or if you have any data logs I would love to see them


Mike, in what gear did the 9000 make 10 PSI under 3000 rpm? Is this pretty close to sea level? At 4500ft I can do 10psi by 3400, 20psi by 3800 and 28psi by 4100 on my smaller displacement engine
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:14 AM   #18
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so yeah, basically if you aren't going to build your head then that turbo is perfect for you because it's more of a match to our rev range
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:04 AM   #19
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your still really not looking at the whole picture here,,,, those big CI engines also rev to 3000 rpms max,, so these turbos need to enguage on them at 1200rpms!! to really be usable. never-mind that many Cummings people consider these turbos "too small" for the truck.

i really wish some hy35 guys would post vids of there turbo spooling....

I'm positive that a high-compression engine 3x the size of the 235 has an advantage here. both in heat, and airflow.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:56 AM   #20
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I'm positive that a high-compression engine 3x the size of the 235 has an advantage here. both in heat, and airflow.
Are you just trolling? I don't know where you're getting your information from but the EGT's that we run are quite a bit higher compared to a diesel.

And running some rough numbers, a modified 139ci B235R at 7k rpms and 26psi is going to flow in the same neighborhood as a 5.7L 6BT at 3k rpms and 30psi. Fooling around with efficiency estimations can influence things, but they're not wildly far apart.

I know it's hard to come by authentic Holset compressor maps, but if someone posts one it woudn't be that hard to just plot some coverage lines.
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