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Old 02-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #1
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Frustrations With BCR 8's

The Question: should I mess with the global ignition maps(advance until knock) on the BCR 8's or quit while I'm ahead and swap back the BCPR 7's?

I Swapped BCR8's in to my pretty damn-well running Stg6-ish 9-3. I had turned the boost down for winter to a peak of ~25psi and a hold of ~22-23psi.
It ran well most of the time--especially after long drives at a certain temperature.
I wanted to run a little bit more power from the setup and light knocking was seemingly keeping me from targets and more consistent running.
Post swap the engine is nowhere near as responsive. It used to scoot nicely around on ~5psi, now, it just makes noise. I also now make so much boost I surged the T28. To me, this stunk of too slow a flame front (the BCR's are a non projector-type plug and are 140*c colder, with a tighter gap) and too much ignition retard. I have had zero knocks, despite several trips past 30psi(by accident). As such, I felt it safe to add .5 degree of timing to an already "worked" map from -.21 up. This picked up performance up to 0 bar, after which, little changed.


From what i've read, one should tune with the BCPR7's and then throw the 8's in for good measure. It sure as shit doesn't seem like a subtle "safety" plug.
Advice? Experience?
-Cm
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:09 AM   #2
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I see there are several views and I know that many of you on here run these plugs. I know .5 degree is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I would like to know from people who run these plugs if changing an ignition map that is set-up for the BCPR 7's is A) correct or indicative of something being wrong and B) Worth it. I went to the trouble, time, and expense to import these things, I'd like it if I could make it work.
-Cm
EDIT: I forgot to mention I spoke with Mike D, who said he's had best luck with the stock plugs. I called NGK and to my surprise got to speak with an incredibly knowledgeable tech, who said projector plugs shouldn't be run much past 15psi....FWIW
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Last edited by Cm452; 02-11-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:41 AM   #3
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My crux lies here; rumor has it that the BCR's (due to their non-projector nature and tighter gap) desensitize the DIC's knock sensing ability, which leads to a speculated false confidence. I want to know how true this is before I correct what I see the problem to be; too little ignition advance with the colder/shorter/more tightly-gaped, plug. I have registered zero knocks since the installation of these plugs, whereas I averaged 2-3 per hard pull with the stock plugs.
I don't want ruin the engine "bushwhacking" with "incorrect" plugs.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
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Were you having trouble with stock plugs?
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:30 PM   #5
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I've found the Irridium BCPR7EIX-11s to be even more knock sensitive than the BCPR 7's, & PFR6H10's, You could buy a set & get mike to rechech my findings, He really couldn't give me a yey or nay on if he thought that was a good idea or not. I just told him i had been test torchering the same set of irridiums for over 40K in a t7 bottem end with a T5 upper "Head" shaved down 1mm with no problems to show yet. Its a Grossly overcompressed 2.3 hybrid with compression in the over 11-1 range. The irridiums won't Blow out "Cease to fire" in a grossly lean condition, Like a standard plug does. Allowing trionic to maintain feedback from the plugs. But these are just my theories. I've tried it myself with good results. Its just up to you if you want to adventure into the study of Irridium & trionic.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:04 PM   #6
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1) The stock plugs gave inconsistent performance, and when they were bad they were very bad( 2-5 knocks per cylinder, per pull ). They also did not tolerate the upper pressures very well, ie, anything over ~22psi. I added w/m to cool things down and extract more power, but I still get random knocks and days where it just "doesn't pull". I even turned everything down, boost and timing wise, to accommodate the stock plugs. In essence, the stock plugs have too narrow a sweet spot for my liking; that realm between just right and too much/too little is very tiny. Fuel, from when, and where, and whether or not my 'effin chakras were in order, determined waaaaay too much for me to consistently tune. It was either plugs or learn the rain-dance and how to properly apply ash-of-newt.

2) Boost is, as promised, rock solid with the BCR plugs--it just doesn't pull that hard. With the stock plugs some pulls would yield that WWWWAAAAwaaaaaWWWWAAAwaaaaaa wastegate wobble--irrespective of how nicely things seemed to be going from live-logging.

@ Harvey's Autohaus: I am not looking for more sensitive plugs! I just want to make sure the BCR 8's are sensitive *enough* so that anything more than signal noise knock-wise is going to register so that I don't unknowingly lead to conditions of massive detonation.
-Cm
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:19 AM   #7
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Sounds to me that the stock plugs aren't causing knock, but are reporting it, correctly.
Nothing in your sig makes me believe you need 2-step colder plugs.
stick with copper 7's, gap them a little tight, and drive.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:54 AM   #8
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I'm with you g96nt; don't understand what's different about the OP's setup and everyone else who's running stock plugs? Sounds like too much timing or too large gap.

The engine compression is stock? The intake/water temp sensors are working correctly, that sort of stuff?
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:29 AM   #9
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Alrighty. Settled! I went with the BCR's because they were recommended by NGK and UKSaabs. I also saw some posts on ecuproject, especially by dilemma, on using the BCR8's. I was hoping to squeeze every last drop of performance out of the motor. Eh, worth a try...I might try the Denso IQ24's, which are identical to the BCPR7's except they are 1 grade colder. Those are a much more expensive mistake, however
I am currently running the 7's at .88mm, or .035"...
Thanks for your input,
-Cm
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