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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 08-21-2012, 09:35 AM   #1
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3bar MAP issues?!?

Ok so I've really just now been getting into driving the car since the 19t upgrade.

If I clear the ECU, the car starts perfect.

After a start or two, the car throws a CEL for the MAP sensor. (ECU has been tuned to accept the 3bar MAP).

Once the CEL is on, the car bogs to about ~500rpm and almost stalls out. If I give it a little gas it sounds like the motor is misfiring slightly for about a minute before it evens out.

Once it evens out, the car idles about 1000-1100rpm (higher than normal, but not sure if that is what I should see with the different injectors).

Now I haven't figured out my gas mileage yet but it smells super rich. (Wideband is on the way, already have a bung welded in the DP). Also since the tune my fuel gauge seems way wrong. It drops too fast (say 1/2 tank over 30 miles), then goes back up on next restart.

Not sure if it's a connection issue with the MAP, but I assume not since once the car is running for a min everything seems alright besides possible fuel consumption. Anything else to look for? Trying to get this figured out before I up the boost to full.

EDIT: all this is based on cold starts. The car seems to start fine (no surging) if it's already warm.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #2
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You went to a 3 bar MAP and bigger injectors without a wideband? Or did someone box you a tune?
What's the code for the check engine light?
Did you disable the rear 02 sensor in T5Suite?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:25 AM   #3
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You went to a 3 bar MAP and bigger injectors without a wideband? Or did someone box you a tune?
What's the code for the check engine light?
Did you disable the rear 02 sensor in T5Suite?
Tune came from JZW.

I'll get the code. EDIT: P0106

I still have a cat (gen saab v2 dp), and the rear O2 is still enabled.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:33 PM   #4
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You had to make new leads for the 3bar MAP right? Maybe it was wired incorrectly?
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-kid View Post
You had to make new leads for the 3bar MAP right? Maybe it was wired incorrectly?
Yes, but it's wired correctly. It doesn't function at all if it's mis-wired.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #6
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Its usually bad connections, its hard to get them to make a good connection sometimes, the pins will not go all the way into the connector. We have also had some issues with just plain bad map sensors, but on a different one and the issue was resolved. That tune is on a bunch of cars and it runs well, so it is most likely an issue with one of the connections or the sensor itself.

Once it throws the code, it goes into default rich mode, so you have to clear the code. We did have one car with a similar issue and it was one of the 02 sensors causing the issue.

I checked that code, that does indicate either sensor is bad, there is a vacuum leak somewhere or there is a bad connection or the wiring is not correct.

Code P0106 states in WIS <50 kpa or >140 Kpa when ignition switch is turned to the on position or when the engine is running and the pressure is constant for 60 seconds despite the throttle position changes.

Code causes base boost pressure only, impaired drivability, misfiring, apc gage gives inplausable readings.

This sounds like its wired wrong or a bad connection or bad map or vacuum leak.

good luck,

John
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Its usually bad connections, its hard to get them to make a good connection sometimes, the pins will not go all the way into the connector. We have also had some issues with just plain bad map sensors, but on a different one and the issue was resolved. That tune is on a bunch of cars and it runs well, so it is most likely an issue with one of the connections or the sensor itself.

Once it throws the code, it goes into default rich mode, so you have to clear the code. We did have one car with a similar issue and it was one of the 02 sensors causing the issue.

I checked that code, that does indicate either sensor is bad, there is a vacuum leak somewhere or there is a bad connection or the wiring is not correct.

Code P0106 states in WIS <50 kpa or >140 Kpa when ignition switch is turned to the on position or when the engine is running and the pressure is constant for 60 seconds despite the throttle position changes.

Code causes base boost pressure only, impaired drivability, misfiring, apc gage gives inplausable readings.

This sounds like its wired wrong or a bad connection or bad map or vacuum leak.

good luck,

John
Yeah I'm not doubting the tune.

Well I know it's wired correctly as far as which wire goes where. I'll recheck connections again but if I disconnect it, it bogs and dies right away. So my thoughts are that contact is made.

Would be pissed if it's a bad sensor. Bought it new from Gen Saab.

Any specific lines to check beyond the one from the sensor to the throttle body?
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Its usually bad connections, its hard to get them to make a good connection sometimes, the pins will not go all the way into the connector. We have also had some issues with just plain bad map sensors, but on a different one and the issue was resolved. That tune is on a bunch of cars and it runs well, so it is most likely an issue with one of the connections or the sensor itself.
This is what happened to me. Make sure all three male connectors are in all the way into the Map sensor

I doubt it would be a faulty sensor. GS sells "Motec" sensors (A very good brand)

Double check everything, It sounds like a dodgy connection
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:32 PM   #9
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So I as of now it seems like it was the connections. I bypassed the housing of the 3 prongs since no matter what I did, it wouldn't work. The 3 are in the MAP connection and electrical taped in for now. I don't know a better solution.

No CEL after running some errands. If it says off, it'll be time to up the boost once the wideband gets here.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #10
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Same thing happened to me, bad connections, one time after a hard 30psi pull, it pulled one of the wires out and my boost gage stayed over full red at idle and my air fuel was very rich at 10.0/1 at idle. I ended up carefully making sure all 3 connections were good and then gooped or siliconed the bottom of the connector so none of the 3 wires could move or come out again and have not taken the sensor off sense !

John
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:54 PM   #11
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I've noticed a couple of posts now with people saying that they have had problems with the wires coming out, are you guys using the correct crimpers for weatherpack terminals, or is it problem something else?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:22 PM   #12
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i just did a 3 bar map conversion today,, the new wizard makes the software function a breeze compared to before!

sadly, somebody who could "plug in" to diagnose these issues would be helpfull, do you know anybody in the area with a T2, or t5suite setup?

as a quick diaganostic, i would unplug sensors while the car is running, the one that makes little/no change when unplugged is probably the culprit. If you have bigger injectors a leak down test on them may not be a bad idea,,, New parts can be defective. Is this a single cylender fault, or a multi cyl issue?


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Old 08-23-2012, 07:37 PM   #13
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:59 PM   #14
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I've noticed a couple of posts now with people saying that they have had problems with the wires coming out, are you guys using the correct crimpers for weatherpack terminals, or is it problem something else?
I think this is a big part of the problem, there is the right tool to properly crimp these connectors and just pinching them down may be one of the main reasons for connection issues. It would be nice to have a nice adaptor cable like the one Maptun sells, that would eliminate many more issues.

John
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:06 AM   #15
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i just did a 3 bar map conversion today,, the new wizard makes the software function a breeze compared to before!

sadly, somebody who could "plug in" to diagnose these issues would be helpfull, do you know anybody in the area with a T2, or t5suite setup?

as a quick diaganostic, i would unplug sensors while the car is running, the one that makes little/no change when unplugged is probably the culprit. If you have bigger injectors a leak down test on them may not be a bad idea,,, New parts can be defective. Is this a single cylender fault, or a multi cyl issue?


Mike d
Good to hear. I was worried about this when you mentioned it before.

FYI: DIYAutoTune sells the exact same part number GM 3 Bar sensor for cheaper than GS, and you can choose the crimp-yourself connectors OR prebuilt connector with a 6" wire pigtail. I chose the latter option so I didn't have to mess with the crimping and possible bad connections.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
I think this is a big part of the problem, there is the right tool to properly crimp these connectors and just pinching them down may be one of the main reasons for connection issues. It would be nice to have a nice adaptor cable like the one Maptun sells, that would eliminate many more issues.

John
Quote:
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Good to hear. I was worried about this when you mentioned it before.

FYI: DIYAutoTune sells the exact same part number GM 3 Bar sensor for cheaper than GS, and you can choose the crimp-yourself connectors OR prebuilt connector with a 6" wire pigtail. I chose the latter option so I didn't have to mess with the crimping and possible bad connections.
My crimps were fine. I made damn sure about that. It was when I put the 3 prongs into the adapter and plugged that into the MAP sensor that something wasn't right. I made sure time and time again that they were all pushed as far in as possible, even after connecting it to the MAP. Without fail, it wouldn't be 100% connected and would trigger the CEL. Without the adapter, but still having the wires crimped to the prongs, I connected each one to the MAP and electrical taped them in. Worked.

Side note my wideband came today. I already had another bung welded into the downpipe so hopefully after work it'll be in. Hoping the location I want to mount it works out.
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