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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-06-2012, 05:53 PM   #1
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To 19t or not 19t?!?

Well long story short, had smoke coming out the tail pipe after Carlisle. Figured it was probably a failing turbo since it has a fair amount of shaft play on it and is an original 127k T25. Pulled the plugs and bam found some coolant on the #4 threads. Figure that the motor was pulling in coolant under large vacuum during engine braking and spitting it out under the following acceleration. So I am currently in the middle of pulling the head off.

Now, I figure the turbo is on the way out anyway and might be a good time to change it while everything is apart. Considering pricing of a china charger, why not look at upgrades. 19t call for larger injectors...well the fuel rail is out for pulling the head.

It's a perfect time and I do have some cash saved up. That said, I don't race, I don't autocross, it's just a personal car that I enjoy. For this reason I don't ever see the need or want for the 400hp range with a GT30 and the ensuing gearbox/clutch failures.

Figure it'll be ~$1000 (high side) for the turbo, tune, 3bar map, injectors. I have all the other supporting hardware. If the T25 were to crap the bed, I figure that I would probably get at least a TD04 which would require a re-tune anyway to really use it.

Maybe I'm trying to convince myself to do it, or have someone talk sense into me. Car has 127k on it, a lot of you saw it at Carlisle. I think with replacing the head gasket I will be caught up with all the major wear parts besides the timing chain which has just about no give in it at the moment.

China charger from NC 1-yr warrenty
TD04HL-19T Upgrade SAAB 9-3 9-5 2.3L Aero B235R B205R B235L Turbo Turbocharger | eBay

Same turbo from Hong Kong less money but longer shipping times
SAAB TD04HL-19T Upgrade 9-3 2.3L 9-5 2.3T Aero B235R B235L B205R Turbo charger | eBay
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:58 PM   #2
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I'm on the fence of doing the same thing, or just doing a rebuild kit on my td04 15t. I stopped looking at china turbos after reading what happened to JZW's customer. It blew up soon after the tuning session was over.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:01 PM   #3
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Next step>>>Quaife ATB Helical LSD Differential F25 Trans; FWD 5Spd Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn - Part Number: QDH5J - Sparktec Motorsports 19T is useless without it.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #4
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Again, I don't race or autocross while having an LSD would be awesome, I really don't know the last time I actually NEEDED one. That and at 1k + labor, I would think about it if I broke the trans.

The 19t would just be for short bursts on the highway already at speed. If I will be breaking the tire(s) loose at 50 then in all honestly it's not what I want.

I am not looking for a monster, just something to get the gits and shiggles going from time to time without TOO much stress on the drive-train. I don't want to be sourcing transmissions by the multiples.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by NeedForSwede View Post
I'm on the fence of doing the same thing, or just doing a rebuild kit on my td04 15t. I stopped looking at china turbos after reading what happened to JZW's customer. It blew up soon after the tuning session was over.
Eh, but at the same time others have had really good luck. I figure it would need a little porting, smoothing. I'd take it to have it checked for balance as well.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:21 PM   #6
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Who are these others? I haven't seen any threads about them yet.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:10 PM   #7
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Who are these others? I haven't seen any threads about them yet.
There was a thread on SC that had a link to the DSM market with successful china chargers. Out of the box they can implode like JZW's guy but with a little work, proper balance, porting of the wastegate flap hole, and other small things they can be pretty decent now.

All this is heresay though but with the one from NC with a 1yr warrenty I'd figure what the hell.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:20 PM   #8
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I would think it could be to laggy for daily use. I have a 18t on my viggen & it's a great setup. Loosing a little displacement & going with a larger turbo I would think it might take a while to get spooling. If you do just want a highway car it might be ok but possibly not so great at lower speeds.

With the LSD.... with my viggen bone stock it was quite easy to light up the inside tire up in 2nd gear turns & sometimes just roll ons when the air was cold. If you get a bigger turbo I would think a LSD would be a necessity....

Possibly talk to whatever tuner you plan on using. Laggy turbo's waiting until 4K+ aren't fun in dailt commuting duty.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:04 AM   #9
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I'd recommend the 18t as well for daily driving. I put one on my 03 9-5 aero wagon and it's been great. Dave Kennedy built it (which I would highly recommend as opposed to the chinese knockoff route) and he recommended I keep the turbine wheel unclipped to help spool up and EGT's aren't a HUGE concern for me as I'm not a high revving kinda guy.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:14 AM   #10
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I'd recommend the 18t as well for daily driving. I put one on my 03 9-5 aero wagon and it's been great. Dave Kennedy built it (which I would highly recommend as opposed to the chinese knockoff route) and he recommended I keep the turbine wheel unclipped to help spool up and EGT's aren't a HUGE concern for me as I'm not a high revving kinda guy.
what kind of deals can dave swing for a 19t?
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:14 AM   #11
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Well it would appear that the 19t is probably not what I want due to the lag. I don't have a line on an 18t at the moment either.

Probably will hold off until the current turbo dies and see I stand.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:45 AM   #12
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Laggy turbo's waiting until 4K+ aren't fun in daily commuting duty.
i beg to differ
fuel economy has gone up; round trip to Carlisle I avg about 36mpg (540mi using about 15gal) and my daily driving avg is about 25mpg (when i struggled for 20 with the smaller turbos)
driving habits have calmed
have been breaking less thing as there is no torque spike at low rpms
turbo noise is ridiculous (keeps the ricers off my back)

the only thing i dont like, is the clutch engagement; wish it was smoother for the daily commute
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #13
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i beg to differ
fuel economy has gone up; round trip to Carlisle I avg about 36mpg (540mi using about 15gal) and my daily driving avg is about 25mpg (when i struggled for 20 with the smaller turbos)
driving habits have calmed
have been breaking less thing as there is no torque spike at low rpms
turbo noise is ridiculous (keeps the ricers off my back)

the only thing i dont like, is the clutch engagement; wish it was smoother for the daily commute
fuel economy has probably gone up BECAUSE of the long spool up time and in traffic/normal driving the car isn't actually getting on boost much if at all, therefore burning less fuel.

Reminds me of when I had my 7.3 power stroke and drove a 6.0 PSD for work, and my 7.3 would just tool along no problem, barely breaking a sweat and not seeing much boost, but the 6.0 was always spooling around like crazy...
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SevierSaabOG93 View Post
what kind of deals can dave swing for a 19t?
if you're interested PM me and I'll let you know what he did for me and get you his contact info!
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #15
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why not turn that t25 into a t28?????? quick spool and still super bad ass
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Hell yeah. All the FWD caddys have roll races like all damn day. Then the cruise over to 'Luca's house for some hard parking and body work tips.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:48 PM   #16
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why not turn that t25 into a t28?????? quick spool and still super bad ass
i know that i personally have lost faith in the garrett's ever since they were bought out by Honeywell. now they are chinese made crap if you read up on them. i'm sure it might also be a case of you get what you pay for but i'd rather not buy chinese.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #17
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i'm sure it might also be a case of you get what you pay for but i'd rather not buy chinese.
Big fat thumbs up!!!
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:08 PM   #18
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Im talking about getting the t25 machined out to accept the t28 wheel offered by chadwick
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Hell yeah. All the FWD caddys have roll races like all damn day. Then the cruise over to 'Luca's house for some hard parking and body work tips.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:14 PM   #19
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A 19T is in no way laggy. My old 2.0L SE spooled a properly clipped 19T similar to the stock turbo.

There's a balance, and sometimes going to a larger exhaust side can actually benefit spool because of the decrease in backpressure. You need to either adapt a larger exhaust housing or clip the wheel, or both, to have a balanced setup with the 19T compressor.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #20
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For those running 18t and 19t turbos, what clutch/pp are you using? Is a stock viggen clutch good for a conservative tune? I had a spec clutch with a viggen pp but swapped a viggen clutch back in since I hated the chatter and grippyness for 95% of the driving I did. Considering a 18 or 19t but don't want to do another clutch.
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