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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 03-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #1
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Advanced T5 Suite User Question Thread

Since this doesn't seem to exist currently, and I know there are several aspiring/pro T5 suite users, and since ECUproject is a ghost town, I figured I would save the cyber space of my myriad questions and condense them to one mega-thread(hopefully). This way, there is one source for people looking to learn and for me to pester. Hopefully, others can learn from my mistakes, and for that matter, yours as well. I know that the pro-tuners generally keep away from threads like this for IP/$$ reasons, but, for totally selfish reasons I think any input would better the overall community. That said:

BACKGROUND:
I am having problems with fueling, as some of you know. I have deka 630's and a walbro 255LPH, but otherwise stock fueling. I had previously bottomed out my VE maps on my old ECU and was still running rich. Upon suspicion that something was awry, I bought a new used ECU and flashed it with a 3 bar MAP tune (using the wizard) and wired in Nick T's 3 bar MAP sensor. Car barely ran it was so lean. I enriched the VE map to the point where it looks like everyone else's deka 630 tune. Car runs very nicely, aside from warm-up, which is a bitch and half 'cause the enrichment maps are a PITA.

PROBLEM:
When I turn Lambda ON it goes stupidly rich ~10AFR at idle.
It will swing; if I blip the throttle it will temporarily go leaner. While driving, with LAMBDA ON, it is also ~10-11AFR. When all Lambda is turned off, I get ~15-16AFR on vacuum cruise and [email protected] hard boost. Idle is ~14.9.
When I tapped into the simulated narrowband of the LC1 controller (wired into OE signal wire) I measured ~.5 for lambda, which is pretty much spot on.

QUERY:
Whenever I use CarPC Dashboard instead of T5 suite live panel, I read considerably leaner than T5 live panel (which is calibrated for the LC1 and pin 69 input). I take this as a clue as to why the ECU dumps fuel when I give it control. So, where does dashboard pull AFR from? If it pulls it from the ECU OE narrowband signal wire, then why the discrepancy between the tapped in measured value and what the ECU sees?

Thanks, and sorry for the long read. Hopefully many will learn from the responses in this thread.
-Cm
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:26 AM   #2
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I'm not sure how it could pull from the narrowband since it is 'narrow'.. I don't remember the difference in AFR between the two but then again I rarely use the dashboard. Only for the launch control.


What's your open_loop map look like?
Did you try just flashing someone else's entire map to see if the problem is corrected? Not necessarily to use it but just to see what changes. Either that or use the feature 'compare binary' to see the differences in enrichment maps or anything else that it could be.

Oh and my guess as to why it goes temporarily leaner when you blip throttle with lambda on is from the sudden rush of air of throttle opening
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:36 AM   #3
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So you're dumping the LC-1 output into the stock narrowband 02 sensor wires? The usual problem with doing this is the fact that the LC-1 is putting out .5v with respect to its ground which may or may not be .5v with respect to the ecu's ground. So if the ecu and LC-1 have grounds that are not at 0v with each other, the ECU is going to see a different voltage so to speak. Assuming the ECU has a ground slightly above 0v, the ecu will see slightly less than .5v and will attempt to enrichen the mixture till it sees .5v which may now be .7+ on the LC-1.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:47 AM   #4
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So you're dumping the LC-1 output into the stock narrowband 02 sensor wires? The usual problem with doing this is the fact that the LC-1 is putting out .5v with respect to its ground which may or may not be .5v with respect to the ecu's ground. So if the ecu and LC-1 have grounds that are not at 0v with each other, the ECU is going to see a different voltage so to speak. Assuming the ECU has a ground slightly above 0v, the ecu will see slightly less than .5v and will attempt to enrichen the mixture till it sees .5v which may now be .7+ on the LC-1.
Very smart...very, very clever. I have the ground for the whole LC1 shebang wired into the lugs immediately adjacent to the ECU, the two right next to each other that face the passenger. However, now that I think about it, the ECU is still using the ground wire for the still-attached narrowband, which it zip-tied to the metal PCV return tube as a ghetto ground. What if I routed the ground wire of the sensor, routed from the loom ( because this is what the ECU sees) and clipped it off at the OE dangling sensor. Then, take this loom ground for narrowband and wire it to where I have the LC-1 grounded, no?
Damn; I love you guys-next meet we have, should we cross ways, 6 pack on me
In the interim, keep the ideas flowin'
-Cm
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:50 AM   #5
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Oh and my guess as to why it goes temporarily leaner when you blip throttle with lambda on is from the sudden rush of air of throttle opening
'Dis I know. Goes lean no mattah what I have enabled as this is a matter of physics and me being too stupid/lazy to get the accel_enrichment maps right.
Come to think of it, the accel_enrichment maps that were so intuitive in the T5 suite I, are gone, as are the boost adaption range maps.
-Cm
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #6
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The ECU is grounded to the engine block, specifically to the intake. The LC-1 being grounded to the body is definitely going to cause the ECU and LC-1 grounds to have a potential voltage greater than 0v for sure.

Does the LC-1 have a positive and negative output for the simulated narrowband? Or just a output wire? The positive simulated narrowband output wire should be dumping its signal into the green wire on the harness or the black wire on the 02 sensor and the negative or ground from the simulated narrowband (not the LC-1 ground) should be attached to the Brown/White wire on the harness, or the grey wire on the 02 sensor.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:41 PM   #7
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I would ground the LC-1 to the engine block, but I wouldn't ground out the grey wire to the engine block.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:47 AM   #8
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I am having trouble following; the LC-1 has but a few wires. One is brown, IIRC, and is wideband-this is plugged into pin 69 of the ECU. Then there is the yellow line-this is positive simulated narrowband-this is connected to the black wire of the OE Narrowband which in turn is plugged into the harness, but not to the narrowband sensor itself (cut it off). There are two "ground" wires for the whole assembly-these are blue and white and are connected to the posts on the chassis right next to the physical ECU. Where is the ground on the intake? My only knowledge of ECU grounds is that each terminus from the loom has it's own ground and that the loom itself has two lugs near the plenum/throttle body/fuel rail.
-Cm
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:48 AM   #9
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On my 9-3 the ECU grounds come from the loom and attach to a bolt on the intake manifold that holds it to the head.
After perusing the manual.....
You need to pick a bolt on the engine and ground the LC-1 to it, both the blue and grey/white from the LC-1. The grey sensor wire also needs to be grounded to this bolt.

Grounding the LC-1 to the chassis is causing your offset problem. Despite the fact that the ECU is in a metal box bolted to the body, it is in no way grounded there.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:42 PM   #10
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Mis-information.
-Cm
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Last edited by Cm452; 03-17-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:45 PM   #11
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The grey wire is the "ground" for the sensor. The brown simulated wire needs to be attached to black wire on the sensor harness.

Last edited by PimpMyPc; 03-17-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:29 PM   #12
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The grey wire is the "ground" for the sensor. The brown simulated wire needs to be attached to black wire on the sensor harness.
Total brain fart: I had a friend on the phone and music playin' and the tv on=mental short circuit. Yes; black wire is the signal wire, to which the simulated narrowband is attached, grey is ground. I get what you are saying, and thanks, again!
I'll get that wired up when i get back home and report back here either way.
-Cm
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:23 PM   #13
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Actually; I have the ground wire(grey) for the OE O2 narrowband wired to the sensor. Seems to me you are saying I should cut it and affix it to the loom ground lug-yes? Or, should I splice in a wire to ground and leave the connection intact? I ask because I still have the narrowband hooked up to placate the ECU's check for heater function. The narrowband is just hanging out but plugged in so that it heats.
-Cm
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #14
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The two white wires are for the heater. One is + and one is ground. The grey is the ground for the sensing portion only. So yes cut it and affix it to the same ground point on the engine as the the two LC-1 grounds.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:24 PM   #15
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The wideband gauge should also be grounded to the same bolt as the two LC-1 grounds and the oxygen sensor grey wire ground.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:22 PM   #16
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Haha, no gauge, just the laptop. Thanks for the awesome information
-Cm
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:01 AM   #17
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On a different note; does the afterstart enrichment map apply to a warmed up engine? I would think not, but the temp compensations I applied to the afterstart enrichment 2 map seem to have carried over to a warmed up engine running condition. This befuddles me, as the 1st afterstart enrichment map seems to have no effect

Thanks,
-Cm
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:28 AM   #18
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Alright, so, credit needs to be given to the collection of brilliant minds here; specifically, PimpMy PC! The car runs freakin sweet in closed loop now!

However, this has spawned a new problem. ECU and thus the OE dash gauge read ~5psi lower than the mechanical boost gauge; meaning when the dash gauge reads ~0.0bar, boost gauge reads ~5psi. Now, I've had problems with my boost gauge before; it has read consistently low relative to the ECU Eg gauge reads 16 psi, ECU is seeing 21. I'd normally discount this, however, the feeling is definitely of 5psi. There is no way the car is as fast as it is @ ~0bar. This, plus the generous blast from the BOV, worries me.
I have a 3 bar map I recently installed, from GS. From my reading, I've determined that if the sensor has a loose wire, the gauge will read 0bar or slight boost at idle. This is not the case. I was messing with the loom ground to affix the wideband system. From what I see all connections are good and hoses are on tight.
This is actually a matter of concern because if the ECU is seeing a falsely low MAP value, then all the values contingent on those values (~>95% of them) will be WRONG
HELP SMART PEOPLE
-Cm
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Last edited by Cm452; 04-09-2012 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:42 AM   #19
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So T5suite or T5dash report that manifold pressure is not 0 bar KOEO?
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:34 PM   #20
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So T5suite or T5dash report that manifold pressure is not 0 bar KOEO?
KOEO???? Yes, all computer functions state ~0bar whereas glow-shift mechanical gauge says ~5psi. Heavy vacuum is accurately indicated by the dash gauge and T5 dashboard as well as the mechanical gauge . When I give it more throttle I obviously get more boost, so ~10psi on the glow-shift reads ~5 on the dash. If it helps, I boosted a little bit early-on in my drive and the glow-shift read like 12psi and T5 suite recorded 2.06 bar immediately after I blew a hose. I am 99% sure this is bull because the hoses couldn't hold 15psi, let alone 30psi. This, plus the fact that my BOV fails at 22psi. After this I noticed the gauges were a little off.
Ideas? I am pretty sure the ECU is seeing a falsely low reading; seat-o-pants meter says 5psi AT LEAST!
-Cm
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