flex fuel viggen without tcs? - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab NG900 '94-'98 and 9-3 '99-'02 Forum > Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3

Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #1
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
yllwJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 744
flex fuel viggen without tcs?

is it possible to run e85/petrol without the tcs? from what i hear theres some kinda file/software update that allows this. also swapping an abs module from a tcs car and software upgrades make it possible. anyone actually do this? or is it just a talked about theory? i found this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by mackan View Post
Just thought I'd make things clear regarding the Biopower softwares.

Biopower sodftwares look for the speed signal on the canbus, this is sent out by the TCS or ESP system. If there is no TCS or ESP in the car there is no speedsignal on the canbus.
What I have done with the softwares on trionictuning.com and ecuproject is to reroute the speedsignal readings to the ABS sensors instead, this way even cars without TCS/ESP can use the Biopower basefile.

Cars that were sold as petrol only does not have any E85 maps whatsoever in them, a software change is neccesary!

The mod with a cable to be able to run later softwares only applies to early MY98 cars. MY99 should be fine with just software.

Original red injectors max out at 230bhp, after that an intake upgrade is in order to be able to fit later style injectors. You can however increase torque in the low and mid range to make the car a lot faster than stock with E85!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackan View Post
Another route is to retrofit a TCS from a MY00 and onwards Trionic7 car, an easy job, just replace the old ABS unit and connect the canbus cables to it. This also requires newer software that has got support for the TCS unit.
__________________
SELF BUILT {HAKBAR SAABZ} - JZW TUNED

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
yllwJet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-09-2012, 08:08 PM   #2
TSLMember
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by yllwJet View Post
is it possible to run e85/petrol without the tcs? from what i hear theres some kinda file/software update that allows this. also swapping an abs module from a tcs car and software upgrades make it possible. anyone actually do this? or is it just a talked about theory? i found this:
Yeah it's possible, My '00 viggen is currently running on flex tune based on mackan's base file.
denmann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2012, 08:28 PM   #3
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,021
It's not just the ABS/TCS controller, the harness is different too IIRC.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2012, 10:52 PM   #4
TSLMember
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewP View Post
It's not just the ABS/TCS controller, the harness is different too IIRC.
Nothing to do with the Tcs it self.the actual software base is altered to ignore/disable Tcs.works flawlessly.my tune is based on mackan's file and I didn't had any problem in a past year.i can run any percentage e85/petrol.havent dynoed the car but according to t7 suite it's 295hp/400nm crank on petrol or 315hp/430nm on e85.this is with 875cc Deka injectors.
Here is the link to base files :
trionictuning.com • Login
denmann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 04:38 AM   #5
Elder
 
Drew in Houston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA/MD
Posts: 2,430
True. Mackan made a file with some modified base coding, ie changes not in the mappable calibrations. I fooled around with it for a little bit and it seems to work pretty well, the only issue I found was how it handled setting the transition line between open and closed loop.
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Drew in Houston; 03-10-2012 at 05:52 AM.
Drew in Houston is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 05:46 AM   #6
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
yllwJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 744
awesome. thanks guys. johns going to be tuning my car for flex fuel. I plan to always use e85 but just in case I get stranded somewhere with no fuel, I can put in petrol and have no issues. there's only 2 gas stations that sell e85 by me
__________________
SELF BUILT {HAKBAR SAABZ} - JZW TUNED

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
yllwJet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 06:27 AM   #7
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,021
Innnnnteresting! Good to know.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 06:46 AM   #8
 
mike saunders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,468
This will help you: AFDC Ethanol: E85 Fueling Station Locations
mike saunders is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 08:07 AM   #9
Elder
 
mvadenais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Woonsocket RI
Posts: 2,687
0 in RI, 5 in all of Mass. Great
__________________
88 900 SPG Black
95 9000 Aero Green
00 9-3 Viggen Silver
mvadenais is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 08:42 AM   #10
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadenais View Post
0 in RI, 5 in all of Mass. Great
theres one 8 minutes out of providence in seekonk now, to add to the one in canton. but yeah...RI is never getting any.



__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #11
User
Elder
 
zingZACH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Durham, NH
Posts: 9,193
Send a message via AIM to zingZACH
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadenais View Post
0 in RI, 5 in all of Mass. Great
Closest station to me is an hour and a half away.

I wish NH and VT would get a couple of pumps. I'd love to have a flex fuel tune.
__________________
1999 9-3 Viggen - T7 Suite Stage 3
1988 900 Springtime in Sweden


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zingZACH is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 01:52 PM   #12
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
byastremski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 811
would i have to run bigger injectors than the deka 660cc or would those be sufficient? i see denmann is running 875cc, what fuel pump are you running?
byastremski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #13
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
NeedForSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Westford, MA
Posts: 1,626
Yes it is. It's been done and is fairly simple. I was looking into it last year but with the lack of e85 stations and time, i didn't follow through. Sign up on trionictuning.com to view this link. trionictuning.com • Login
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NeedForSwede is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #14
TSLMember
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by byastremski View Post
would i have to run bigger injectors than the deka 660cc or would those be sufficient? i see denmann is running 875cc, what fuel pump are you running?
For stage 1 e85 stock injectors/pump are fine however stage 3 requires bigger injectors and pump.
There is already made tuning packs for st1 and st3, look into t7tuning/tuning packages sub- forum.all you have to do is apply TP to the base file and flash the Bin using canusb or bdm.there is more steps in beetween so please read instructions before hand
denmann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 04:36 PM   #15
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
yllwJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 744
denmann, how many miles roughly do you get out of a full tank on e85?
__________________
SELF BUILT {HAKBAR SAABZ} - JZW TUNED

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
yllwJet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #16
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
byastremski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 811
pat did you end up going with bigger injectors for the gtx?
byastremski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #17
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
yllwJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by byastremski View Post
pat did you end up going with bigger injectors for the gtx?
im running the 630cc injectors. theres still plenty left on them but might not be enough for e85. so i picked up 830cc injectors just in case. once john starts tuning my car well see if the 630s are enough.
__________________
SELF BUILT {HAKBAR SAABZ} - JZW TUNED

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
yllwJet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 05:51 PM   #18
 
mike saunders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by yllwJet View Post
im running the 630cc injectors. theres still plenty left on them but might not be enough for e85. so i picked up 830cc injectors just in case. once john starts tuning my car well see if the 630s are enough.
You have the right idea. Go 750 or 830. With the GTX flowing 10-20 percent more than the GT, and E85 requiring about 20 percent more fuel (due to less energy per equivalent amount of 93 octane) you'll probably be out of the 630 in no time.

John knows his shit, tho...You'll probably end up with a sore face from the permagrin after it's tuned.
mike saunders is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 06:12 PM   #19
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
yllwJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You have the right idea. Go 750 or 830. With the GTX flowing 10-20 percent more than the GT, and E85 requiring about 20 percent more fuel (due to less energy per equivalent amount of 93 octane) you'll probably be out of the 630 in no time.

John knows his shit, tho...You'll probably end up with a sore face from the permagrin after it's tuned.
yea john was the one that recommended the 830s. all his cars and a bunch of his buddies over there all run on e85. it just blows theres only one gas station around here that has it. having the flexfuel ability is critical for me
__________________
SELF BUILT {HAKBAR SAABZ} - JZW TUNED

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
yllwJet is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 06:19 PM   #20
TSLMember
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by yllwJet View Post
denmann, how many miles roughly do you get out of a full tank on e85?
21mpg on petrol and 18mpg on e85
denmann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.