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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 02-15-2012, 09:28 AM   #1
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Viggen engine rebuild questions

Whats up guys..... I was wondering if you could help me out?

About two or three years ago I was planning on buying a Viggen as my next vehicle but after months of searching I couldn't find one close enough to me that was in decent enough shape and had full records of maintenance. I ended up buying a MazdaSpeed3 and love the car but was searching locally for fun and found a 2000 Viggen that is in need of an engine rebuild. The owner claims that they have found scoring in the number 1 cylinder and that the engine needs to be replace. He also claims that the engine has been replaced around 30k mi ago so I am not sure whats going on with the vehicle. The car does have some mods on it.... GS Open air intake, Abbott Rescue Kit, Cross Drilled Rotors.

My question is how much would a proper engine rebuild costs? (parts, machining and assembly only... I am more than capable of pulling and re-installing the motor)

If I end up doing this I would like to end up with a car that is pushing 280-300 wheel HP so I would like the engine rebuild to support this level of power. I'm thinking forged pistons with fresh bearings and machining and leaving everything else stock.
-- Is this beyond the capabilities of the stock TD04? I looked into a turbo swap but am not sure I want to dump that kind of money into the car.

What would a stock rebuild end up running me if I needed to find a new block?

I'm just trying to get an idea of my options here. The car will be a daily driver so reliability and drivability are very important here. What would you suggest doing given different price levels???
Lets say I spend $2k on the rebuild.... where would that get me?
what about $3k?
How about $4k?
I dont plan on doing much after the rebuild besides driving it so I'm not really worried about future upgrades. Anything I do will be installed during the engine rebuild.

I understand that the car will need to be tuned and I would plan on getting a CAN bus adapter and using T7Suite with a wideband to get everything running properly. I have experience tuning my turbo'd Fiero with MegaSquirt ECU that I built. To give you an idea of my skill level here is what the Fiero looks like....



Thanks for your help guys.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #2
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first of all welcome to TSL
i will fill you in on my current rebuild and rough costs
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:21 AM   #3
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If you're going for just a daily with the thought of modifying it a bit, I would just source yourself a b234 block freshen up the gasket and slap the viggen head, timing cover and so on... b234 is quite a bit stronger and more reliable...
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grkguy89
first of all welcome to TSL
Thanks. I did quite a bit of searching around here when I was looking a first getting a Viggen and remembered noticing lots of good info from knowledgeable people.


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Originally Posted by byastremski View Post
If you're going for just a daily with the thought of modifying it a bit, I would just source yourself a b234 block freshen up the gasket and slap the viggen head, timing cover and so on... b234 is quite a bit stronger and more reliable...
During my searching I found a few threads with people doing this. Is there a particular year engine to look for or avoid? How much power can the stock block/crank/pistons hold? There are a few b234's in the local JY for ~$700.... whats the average price for a engine?

Last edited by TurboGT; 02-15-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:35 PM   #5
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Did some more research and the b234 dosnt sound like the way to go...
https://www.saablink.net/forum/performance-modifications-ng900-old-9-3/58179.htm

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Originally Posted by JZW View Post
The issue is when you put a t7 head on a t5 bottom end, you lose a bunch of compression and it takes it from stock 9.2 down to 8.1 or something with the larger t7 combustion chamber size, so that will hurt drivability on the bottom end, it will feel laggy and sluggish down low, this has been a common complaint from guys that have done it.

If you can get a good t7 block or if the block is ok, much better to just put in some Woessner forged pistons and be done with it, much more efficient engine and the main weak point of the t7 engine is the pistons,

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d View Post
John pretty much hit the nail on the head, And if you count in the cost to Re-ring B234 parts, you may even find the wossenger ring/piston set to sum out to a cheaper rebuild than a b234 stock build.

Mike d
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #6
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thats only if your using pistons for a t5 with a t7 head. all the blocks are the same. just get yourself a block and use your stock crank and rods out of the old one. and pick up some wossner or je pistons. with that youll have plenty of play room for power.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:49 PM   #7
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thats only if your using pistons for a t5 with a t7 head.
Thats the thing.....he was suggesting I go that route. If i get this I will keep the stock block if it is machinable otherwise I will look into the b234 block.

yllwJet, how much did you have into your Viggen motor (not the turbo setup) before you bent the rod?
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:41 PM   #8
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Hi yellow Jet
I just rebuild my Viggen engine
Whit JE piston everything in there
Is new excepts the rods and crank
New timing cover kit I replace everything
New water pump, head gasket oil pressure switch
Head was rebuild too
It's like a new engine but I'm having a oil pressure
And lifter problems any suggestion I pull the engine
Three times already Trying to find the problem The
Car idle good for a hour then the lifter starts too make
Noise and the oil light come's on. HELP
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:51 PM   #9
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What did your bearing clearances look like?

New oil pump and pressure regulator to go with the timing cover I assume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAERO View Post
Hi yellow Jet
I just rebuild my Viggen engine
Whit JE piston everything in there
Is new excepts the rods and crank
New timing cover kit I replace everything
New water pump, head gasket oil pressure switch
Head was rebuild too
It's like a new engine but I'm having a oil pressure
And lifter problems any suggestion I pull the engine
Three times already Trying to find the problem The
Car idle good for a hour then the lifter starts too make
Noise and the oil light come's on. HELP
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:53 PM   #10
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Nice Fiero btw! What engine is that; have any dyno sheets?

I had the worst kind back in the day, '84, automatic, Iron Duke. I think it had about 35 hp.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:43 PM   #11
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Drew
Yes everything new I'm going
To pull the crank out and replace and
See what happen will let you know
Thanks for the reply !!
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAERO View Post
Hi yellow Jet
I just rebuild my Viggen engine
Whit JE piston everything in there
Is new excepts the rods and crank
New timing cover kit I replace everything
New water pump, head gasket oil pressure switch
Head was rebuild too
It's like a new engine but I'm having a oil pressure
And lifter problems any suggestion I pull the engine
Three times already Trying to find the problem The
Car idle good for a hour then the lifter starts too make
Noise and the oil light come's on. HELP
Hey JAREO,

I will let you hijack my thread if you post up a cost breakdown of how much you spent to rebuild the motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston
Nice Fiero btw! What engine is that; have any dyno sheets?
The engine is a 3400 out of a 2002 Pontiac Grand AM. Dyno sheets are coming this spring but it should put down 300+ whp and ~350 ft-lb's of torque. The car only weighs 2800 lbs so it gets up and goes with only 10 psi of boost (launch control is setup and I can hit 5psi off the line).

Anyone else have any input of $$$ to rebuild this engine?
What would you suggest doing given different price levels???
Lets say I spend $2k on the rebuild.... where would that get me?
what about $3k?
How about $4k?
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:18 AM   #13
 
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A Viggen only weighs about 3,050, so either the Saab is light or the Fiero needs to go on Atkins.

The most cost-effective route is just to remove the existing engine, bore out the cylinders .5mm and and replace the weaksauce stock pistons with forged JE or Wossner. If the engine was actually changed 30K miles ago, the timing and balance chains should be fine, and you probably don't need to touch the oil pump gears (although you should check them....) Add a 3" downpipe, intercooler, a cobra pipe and tuning and you should be very close to a SAFE 280-300 whp.

That should be just under the $2K level, depending on how much you do yourself.

Once you get the car back on the road, you can start thinking about a turbo upgrade. With an 18 or 19T, or GTX3071 the car's everyday drivability will be very close to stock but you'll have in the range of 320-350 WHP and 350-400 WTQ, depending on tune. (A Holset might also work for you; there are a couple of small-frame ones in the HY series that could work, but I'm not that familiar with them.) That's pretty much the reasonable limit for an all-weather daily driver.

A rewheel of the 15T to an 18T would be maybe $400ish and would include a rebuild and balancing. A Holset would be MUCH cheaper than a GT series and could be rebuilt if anything went wrong. The ball-bearing GT or GTX series needs a whole new CHRA, but Garrett giver you a credit if bought at an authorized retailer.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:14 AM   #14
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A Viggen only weighs about 3,050, so either the Saab is light or the Fiero needs to go on Atkins.
2800 is with my 200 lb ass and a half tank of gas, but it could definitely be lighter (what do you expect the car was built from the existing parts bin GM had laying around )..... guess thats what happens with 15 years difference between manufacturing.

Mike, Thanks for the suggestions on the Viggen rebuild
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:33 AM   #15
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I've been trying to Gestimate this all week also.

Machining is usually around $800.00 for a normal build, Minus balence, Includes Grind 16 valves, Bore block, Polish crank etc. can be over a grand if you want all the parts Balenced together as an assembly.


Water pump T. Stat $150.00

Gaskets $300 ish

Pistons $600.oo or so

Bearings Figure $220 ish for aftermarket.

Chains can add up to a grand almost some times.

Labor? Depends on Retail, TSLr or other. $1000.-2000. Also Depends on if installed in the car or not. Prices may vary
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #16
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Thats the thing.....he was suggesting I go that route. If i get this I will keep the stock block if it is machinable otherwise I will look into the b234 block.

yllwJet, how much did you have into your Viggen motor (not the turbo setup) before you bent the rod?
if your get a b234 block it doesnt matter. its the pistons that make the difference. make sure you get t7 pistons and either b234 or b235 will be fine.

all that was done internally were je pistons and new bearings. machine work was like 700$ plus new parts, chains, bearings, sprockets etc. so prob like 2,000$


Quote:
Originally Posted by JAERO View Post
Hi yellow Jet
I just rebuild my Viggen engine
Whit JE piston everything in there
Is new excepts the rods and crank
New timing cover kit I replace everything
New water pump, head gasket oil pressure switch
Head was rebuild too
It's like a new engine but I'm having a oil pressure
And lifter problems any suggestion I pull the engine
Three times already Trying to find the problem The
Car idle good for a hour then the lifter starts too make
Noise and the oil light come's on. HELP
i had oil pressure issues too. it depends on your bearing clearances, should be .020 you can pop in some washers into the oil pressure valve to increase the pressure and use a thicker oil.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:58 PM   #17
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also anyone looking for an engine build/re-build and not up for doing it themselves, me and harvey are most certainly up for the job
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #18
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Thanks for the estimates guys!!!

What do you think a clean 2000 Viggen with a bad motor is worth?
Car has custom dash and grill, GS Open air intake, Abbott Rescue Kit, Cross Drilled Rotors, 18 Borbet rims with new Continentals. The car looks clean but does have a dent or two on the body and the drivers seat has some wear.

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Old 02-17-2012, 04:25 AM   #19
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that one is way cleaner than the one I bought 2 years ago... mine had 65k w/ a blown motor, black 5dr, bone stock and looked like it had never been washed a day in its life... i payed $2500 plus $900 to ship from colorado too NY... just for reference
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:39 AM   #20
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tough to tell what condition the paint/body/interior is in from that picture, also what does it have for mileage.? that's really what it comes down to for resale. to me that's a $3000 dollar car..i paid $2k for a stock 72k black coupe w/ blown motor.. also w. the same wheels you have in 16in..but body wise in rough shape in my book.
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