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Old 02-07-2012, 07:09 AM   #1
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How Do Voltage Corr. Tables Impact VE Table?

ECU project is but a vestige of what it was, as such, I am asking here.
I am trying to run an injector constant of 16, which works very well. However, in the lowest load part of the fuel (VE) maps, I am a little rich and have essentially bottomed out the maps. How can I manipulate the batt.Korr tables to give me the fractions needed to get AFR perfect?
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Cm
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:35 AM   #2
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sounds like this table is akin to what some other people might call the injector latency table?

and the constant is like the injector scaling?

if that sounds remotely correct you would i believe you would need to increase the "latency" in the area that corresponds to the low load parts of the VE table (aka keep the injector shut longer)

sorry if thats not much help, i have no experience with the trionic suites, and am just attempting to apply my basic speed density skills/advanced maf tuning skills from a completely different ems.



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Old 02-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #3
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sounds like this table is akin to what some other people might call the injector latency table?

and the constant is like the injector scaling?

if that sounds remotely correct you would i believe you would need to increase the "latency" in the area that corresponds to the low load parts of the VE table (aka keep the injector shut longer)

sorry if thats not much help, i have no experience with the trionic suites, and am just attempting to apply my basic speed density skills/advanced maf tuning skills from a completely different ems.
Close The batt.Korr tables are latency tables for the injectors, however, they are setup with the intent to compensate for increased latency due to decreased voltage/reduced latency with higher V's. My problem is that these tables cannot be related to the injector scaling, or volumetric efficiency tables, because the car runs a fairly constant~14vdc. Changing the values for one specific voltage would change the latency and thus fuel delivered. However, this would also affect the upper regions of the map, if I am understanding the concepts correctly. However, there is much talk and little to no elaboration as to what black-magic combo skews the latency for low demand but has minimal impact up top.
See the dilemma?
-Cm
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:22 PM   #4
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What's the highest value in the VE map right now?
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:37 PM   #5
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What's the highest value in the VE map right now?
~1.1. Have to get the other computer from the dust and pull up the maps...
idle maps are bottomed out @.5, WOT @ high boost is around .95 to 1.1. That is still rich, too. Logs indicate afr around 11 at high boost all the way through the revs. I've been at school and have not had the opportunity to get some good WOT logs in place because 1) It is actually too fast for many roads 2) I hit boost cut seemingly intermittently and that jars the laptop, which in turn stops the HD as a safety measure which stops logs
-Cm
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:48 AM   #6
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Maybe you can disable the fuel cut temporarily as you road tune. I don't think you could do too much damage in that scenario since the spike is ever so brief.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:41 AM   #7
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Maybe you can disable the fuel cut temporarily as you road tune. I don't think you could do too much damage in that scenario since the spike is ever so brief.
Sorta scares me...could spike hard. Sorta hard to keep an eye on things as I rocket down the road
-Cm
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #8
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It's also possible that the injector stuff is rightbut the ve tables are wrong



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Old 02-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #9
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You need to just bite the bullet and adjust the injector constant. Then redo all the maps. No table exists that will affect the injectors like you want it to.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #10
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You need to just bite the bullet and adjust the injector constant. Then redo all the maps. No table exists that will affect the injectors like you want it to.
Car won't run on IC of 15 despite VE maps being mathematically corrected.
It barely starts and then literally chugs. Once it warms up it sounds like it has a wicked cam to it. AFR reads normal, too, but it blows black smoke. The exhaust also has a very high velocity on the IC 15 tune. At idle it scours the dirt and leaves around the exhaust mouth
I am reticent to tune it to anything else as it runs *perfectly* with the IC 16 tune. It literally runs like a stock car and every element of the maps is perfect except for some wot regions.
I spent a shitload of time road tuning the IC 16-literally cell by cell in some cases.
F*CK!
-Cm
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:00 PM   #11
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Did you index the injectors when you installed them?
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:52 AM   #12
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Did you index the injectors when you installed them?
Yes. If I hadn't it wouldn't work with an IC of 16 either.
-Cm
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:06 AM   #13
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I'll rephrase; if I change my batt.korr, for one voltage area, by %10, what can I expect my AFR or VE tables to change by?
-Cm
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:37 AM   #14
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T5 or T7? You should check back with ECUProject, there were some issues for awhile but Steve's been doing a lot of work on it lately.

On your questions though, the chugging you describe doesn't sound right...like timing is way out or maybe you're actually passing raw fuel/air that's igniting post combustion and making your widband readings unreliable?
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:29 AM   #15
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First thing i would do,, is get somebody else to drive your car while you sit shotgun to tune it,, youll see way more of what youll need from the passengers seat.
Secondly, what injectors are you running? 16 is usally what deka 630s call for (roughly)

Lastly, have you tried turning off "use idle injection map" and turning on "constant injection time during idle" (in firmware) and playing with map Tid_konst!

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Old 02-11-2012, 10:30 PM   #16
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T5 or T7? You should check back with ECUProject, there were some issues for awhile but Steve's been doing a lot of work on it lately.

On your questions though, the chugging you describe doesn't sound right...like timing is way out or maybe you're actually passing raw fuel/air that's igniting post combustion and making your widband readings unreliable?
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First thing i would do,, is get somebody else to drive your car while you sit shotgun to tune it,, youll see way more of what youll need from the passengers seat.
Secondly, what injectors are you running? 16 is usally what deka 630s call for (roughly)

Lastly, have you tried turning off "use idle injection map" and turning on "constant injection time during idle" (in firmware) and playing with map Tid_konst!

Mike d
As to the first; it was blowing black smoke, so I gather it was the latter, the raw fuel that is...
The timing is the same as it was on the IC 16 tune.
As to the second: I am running 630 deka's. The IC of 15 map was a bitch to start, and idled like crap, but once it got over 1500rpms, it ran decently. However, it would still blow black smoke
I quickly switched over maps...btw, just looked at the VE map--the highest value on there was .85. Injector duty cycle is 64% @ WOT, with a 17.3ms injection duration. What I was reading in the manual is that the min injector duration is set by a variable, this variable would allow the computer to manipulate the AFR since the ECU regulates afr by adjusting the injector ms duration. The Batt.Korr map in turn is affected by the above value. I don't know if it is the VE map or the injector duration or both that is causing the problem. That said I am running "idle injection map" and constant injection is off, I believe. What would changing these do?
-Cm

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Old 02-12-2012, 08:38 AM   #17
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if you switch it over to constant injection time, it just runs one number for the injectors at idle, so its very easy to controll. However it can make load buffering, and a few other things less than perfect,, Use it as a temporary fix,, to check to make sure all hardware is correct
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:29 AM   #18
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What I was reading in the manual is that the min injector duration is set by a variable, this variable would allow the computer to manipulate the AFR since the ECU regulates afr by adjusting the injector ms duration. The Batt.Korr map in turn is affected by the above value. I don't know if it is the VE map or the injector duration or both that is causing the problem. That said I am running "idle injection map" and constant injection is off, I believe. What would changing these do?
-Cm

thats what i was calling injector latencies.

the IC 16 is your "scaling". if the scaling is right you either need to adjust the latencies or the ve tables are wrong.

ive never tuned SD, so i dont have any knowledge with VE tables. it sort of sounds like you need to bump up the latencies (keep the injectors shut longer at idle.)

do the trionic suites let you look at anything like long term fuel trims? that would tell you whats happening



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Old 02-12-2012, 05:10 PM   #19
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thats what i was calling injector latencies.

the IC 16 is your "scaling". if the scaling is right you either need to adjust the latencies or the ve tables are wrong.

ive never tuned SD, so i dont have any knowledge with VE tables. it sort of sounds like you need to bump up the latencies (keep the injectors shut longer at idle.)

do the trionic suites let you look at anything like long term fuel trims? that would tell you whats happening
It prolly won't show an accurate fuel trim since I run it open loop all the time.
I have no idea if the VE tables are wrong; the car runs perfectly. Everything, and I mean literally everything, runs better than it ever has. Running in open loop I tuned the VE table so that I get much better economy cruising than when I did stock and it also runs plenty of fuel when at high rpm +boost.
The only time it runs a little rich is at idle. Aside from that, everything is honky dory. To further exacerbate the variables, I accidentally spliced the ECU loom lambda ground wire into the simulated narrowband feed from the LC1. I posted this a little while ago...dunno if it made a difference. The ONLY issue with the car is that it won't run with Lambda control enabled. It throws an internal error code and an adapt error code. Both of which vanish when I disable lambda. If it helps, the lambda code comes on after ~15 mins of driving the car fully warmed up when it is enabled. It will run fine after the CEL comes on, too. However, if I drive much more once the CEL has lit, then the car bucks and shimmies, and tries to stall. AFR goes wicked rich during this period-so i presume some sort of limp home has been activated despite it not saying so in dashboard.
I think the error code may be related to A) The latency, or injector duration being bottomed out @ 1ms, B) From the VE maps being essentially bottomed out @ max vacuum, very light load areas.
Dunno. Again, my VE table doesn't ever go above "1" for any particular load value. Despite this, AFR *just right*.
*inappropriate and mean-deleted*
-Cm

Last edited by Cm452; 02-14-2012 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:11 PM   #20
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In closely reading the manual; lower voltage slows the time the injectors open, so the multiplying factor is higher to enable more time than would be calculated. At higher voltage, they are faster than anticipated, so it has a fractional number, which would equal less duration since the open/close time is more exact. Theoretically, lowering that number even more would reduce the fuel slightly. However, I have no idea what is a good value aside from just throwing them on the ECU and seeing what happens.
Any ideas?
-Cm
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