b2x4 compared to b2x5 block??? - The Saab Link Forums

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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 11-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #1
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b2x4 compared to b2x5 block???

what are the differences between these two blocks?



obviously the b234 and b235 are 2.3 liter versions.... they have different

- crank

- piston

- connecting rods



but are the bottom ends exactly the same?



my thing is i've got a b204 from my 99 9-3 sitting around and a machine shop is telling me line bore is off in my b235 out of my viggen... can i just take all of my internals from the viggen and put them in my b204 block?
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:28 AM   #2
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blocks are identical so yes
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:39 AM   #3
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:35 PM   #4
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My brother just finished putting a B234 from a 1996 9000CS into a 2002 Viggen. Took it to the block, added Viggen oil pan, front & rear covers, head, etc and is off and running.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:37 PM   #5
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the 2L motors are de-stroked 2.3's. the blocks it has been argued, have varying oil passages, but they are interchangeable since the difference lies in the internals.



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Old 11-05-2011, 02:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byastremski View Post
what are the differences between these two blocks?



obviously the b234 and b235 are 2.3 liter versions.... they have different

- crank

- piston

- connecting rods



but are the bottom ends exactly the same?



my thing is i've got a b204 from my 99 9-3 sitting around and a machine shop is telling me line bore is off in my b235 out of my viggen... can i just take all of my internals from the viggen and put them in my b204 block?
The issue is when you put a t7 head on a t5 bottom end, you lose a bunch of compression and it takes it from stock 9.2 down to 8.1 or something with the larger t7 combustion chamber size, so that will hurt drivability on the bottom end, it will feel laggy and sluggish down low, this has been a common complaint from guys that have done it.

If you can get a good t7 block or if the block is ok, much better to just put in some Woessner forged pistons and be done with it, much more efficient engine and the main weak point of the t7 engine is the pistons,

John
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:12 PM   #7
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The issue is when you put a t7 head on a t5 bottom end

John
im pretty sure hes speaking of only the block. if you use a t7 head with t5 internals then yes, but the block doesnt matter.



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Old 11-05-2011, 04:38 PM   #8
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yes i already have forge internals and i spun a rod bearing... so i got another crank from a 9-5 because mine was pretty bad...

so all im looking at doing is using the bare b204 block everything else will be from the b235 block...

should i use the same head gasket or do i have to run a different one?
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JZW View Post
The issue is when you put a t7 head on a t5 bottom end, you lose a bunch of compression and it takes it from stock 9.2 down to 8.1 or something with the larger t7 combustion chamber size, so that will hurt drivability on the bottom end, it will feel laggy and sluggish down low, this has been a common complaint from guys that have done it.

If you can get a good t7 block or if the block is ok, much better to just put in some Woessner forged pistons and be done with it, much more efficient engine and the main weak point of the t7 engine is the pistons,

John
John pretty much hit the nail on the head, And if you count in the cost to Re-ring B234 parts, you may even find the wossenger ring/piston set to sum out to a cheaper rebuild than a b234 stock build.

taking 4-8lbs of the flywheel when you do a 234 lower end, with a 235 head helps quite a bit with the lack of response, however its just working around a still existing problem

Lastly, when you do a rebuild, Spend the 30$ and get a scale, and balance the rods/pistons, Doing so is not rocket science, and it makes the motor run 10x better, Here is a good article on rod balancing

http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIR...odBalance.html

I've also been told that 2x4 blocks use a harder (Higher nickle count?) block than 2x5 blocks, But i have no real information to back that.... It could just be the result of the extra years of seasoning..

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Old 11-05-2011, 07:27 PM   #10
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I think 4 b2x5 blocks = 3 b2x4 blocks in material
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by byastremski View Post
yes i already have forge internals and i spun a rod bearing... so i got another crank from a 9-5 because mine was pretty bad

so all im looking at doing is using the bare b204 block everything else will be from the b235 block...

should i use the same head gasket or do i have to run a different one?
I am pretty sure you cannot do that, the crank is the same, but the pistons and rods from a b204 or b234 are different than a b205 or b235.

You have to run b235 rods and pistons in a b235 block and b234 rods and pistons in a b234 or b204 block, the piston orientation on the rod is different, we found this out when running woessner pistons in a b234 or b204 block, with a b235 block, there was over an inch of clearance at the bottom of the stroke with b235 block, in a b234 block, the piston would hit the oil squirters at the bottom of the stroke, had to have the pistons ground on the bottom and sent all data to woessner for revised b234 piston size.

The different geometry of how the piston fits on the rods changes compression and is responsible for the b235 being a more efficient engine, better VE.

Bottom line is the crank is the same, but the rods and pistons must follow the block, 235 in 235 and 234 in 234...

John
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:35 AM   #12
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I have used b235 rods and pistons in a b234 block before with no issues. Block and crank from a 98 900s, rods and pistons (ab) from a 9-5. This was in a daily driver, not something built for power. These were all stock parts. I always match the head gasket to the block (b234 block gets a b234 hg)

Last edited by seriks1; 11-06-2011 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:13 AM   #13
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Brent- how bad is the crank scored? Sounds like you need to find a shop that can restore that and avoid this swap altogether...
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by seriks1 View Post
I have used b235 rods and pistons in a b234 block before with no issues. Block and crank from a 98 900s, rods and pistons (ab) from a 9-5. This was in a daily driver, not something built for power. These were all stock parts. I always match the head gasket to the block (b234 block gets a b234 hg)
Good to know, I was not sure, that seems to answer it for sure,

John
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:05 AM   #15
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Headgasket follows pistons if I'm not mistaken. Not the block. I put 234 rods and pistons in a 235mini using 235 hg and the pistons hit the head sounded like bad lifters. Put in a 234 hg and it was gone. Does do something to the power. The car revs more freely I will say that. 20k miles on that swap and it. Was still running great when wrecked
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #16
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ok so then i should be good with what i have planned?

should i go with a b234 gasket?
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:46 PM   #17
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use the HG for the block you intend to use, because the deck heights are different and the HG makes up for it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:52 AM   #18
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So much of this is apocryphal(not really this thread specifically); everyone seems to have an opinion, but I have yet to see numbers.
Can anyone clearly, simply, certifiably, outline the differences between B204 and the B234 and separately outline the differences between the B205 and the B204 as well as the B234 and the B235? I ask because I was sure the differences between the 204/234 was the crank and rods, and that the difference between these engines and their successors was the pistons/heads/cams-no?
IIRC I read in an early T7 B205 owners manual that the compression was lower on those engines- like 8.5 or so, is this correct?
To add to my confusion what I have gleaned from general reading/wasting my life on here, is that the only overall differences between the T5/T7 engines is the head, the cams, and the pistons; this thread suggests otherwise.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:22 AM   #19
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Ill double check with Jp but I'm pretty sure we used a 234 headgasket on a 235 block with 234 rods and pistons.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:30 AM   #20
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IIRC I read in an early T7 B205 owners manual that the compression was lower on those engines- like 8.5 or so, is this correct?
To add to my confusion what I have gleaned from general reading/wasting my life on here, is that the only overall differences between the T5/T7 engines is the head, the cams, and the pistons; this thread suggests otherwise.
Help
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piston dish/chamber volume/cam profile/valve stems are the major differences between motors and t5/t7. the difference from 2.0 to 2.3 is stroke.





^^^pay close attention to the gasket thickness



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