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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 10-30-2011, 05:40 PM   #1
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cams cams cams

I have a set of T5 cams from a 1991 9000T, are these the correct "upgrade" cams that I should put in my viggen?
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:01 PM   #2
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:33 PM   #3
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Actually those are gonna be LH cams. You will need cams from a newer engine platform 94+ for 9000/900
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:47 PM   #4
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Yup you need t5 cams hence cars with trionic 5 engine management systems
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:54 PM   #5
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Correct, t5 is from 94-98, not sure about the 91 9k cams, but some guys do run the 1986-88 b202 cams in the later 94-98 ng900 and 9000 cars, so they may work ok, but are not the t5 cams guys talk about putting in the t7 motors.

I know the older cams were even more aggressive.

B202 in the 256 duration range and 8.65mm lift
94-98 t5 cams in the 240 duration range 8.65mm lift
viggen cams in the 231 duration range and 8.31mm lift
enem cams in the 264 duration range and 9.6mm lift

The 91-93 9k cams look good, they are 246 duration and 8.65mm lift!

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Old 10-31-2011, 04:34 AM   #6
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The 91-93 9k cams look good, they are 246 duration and 8.65mm lift!
hmm would those cams line up without having to time them like the b202 cams?
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:17 AM   #7
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In the Tech section of 900Aero.com you can find cam specs.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:46 AM   #8
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hmm would those cams line up without having to time them like the b202 cams?
There are always gains if you clock the cams, you could clock your stock t5 cams and get much better flow on the top end and relieve some back pressure too,

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Old 10-31-2011, 11:42 AM   #9
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hmm would those cams line up without having to time them like the b202 cams?
those cams shouldnt give a effective gain over t5 cams ie not worth it. lift gives you more power than duration

to me the perfect cams would have same duration but higher lift. so they have drivability and more power


and great info JZW
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:50 PM   #10
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You should read up on Vigge's post and testing on duration and lift, he has tested quite a few cams and actually states the opposite and after about a 1mm lift increase, more does not help much and more duration helps more. I have done my own testing and believe the same thing, I am actually going down on lift now and back to more duration There are some very aggressive cams with 12mm lift, but whether or not that helps more is up to debate. I love the enem 9.6mm lift and 264 duration, tried the 10.4mm lift 276 duration enem and did not like them very much, power on too late for my 2.3 stroked motor. I am going to try another cam yet see how that works,

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Old 10-31-2011, 01:39 PM   #11
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So, would i benefit putting T5 cams in my b205r T7 suite stg 1? Would i have to modify the tune if i did?
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:20 PM   #12
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Not sure about your tune, the easy tunes do not address the most important parts of tuning the ignition and fueling maps, but the t5 cams do offer better mid-range breathing and some have shown gains in the 12whp range and that is not bad, so yes, t5 cams will help your motor breath better and make better power through the mid range and upper midrange,

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Old 10-31-2011, 05:53 PM   #13
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Not sure about your tune, the easy tunes do not address the most important parts of tuning the ignition and fueling maps, but the t5 cams do offer better mid-range breathing and some have shown gains in the 12whp range and that is not bad, so yes, t5 cams will help your motor breath better and make better power through the mid range and upper midrange,

John
Gotcha, ill have to look into that. Thanks.

Ive been thinking about swapping cams since i aquired the car, but i heard from some its not worth the effort, some say its better for T7 engines regardless. Ive never swapped out cams before, they relatively easy to do? I think i may of seen a write-up on it here once, i cant find it though. Lost in archives? I mean im pretty mechanicaly capable.
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:58 PM   #14
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You should read up on Vigge's post and testing on duration and lift, he has tested quite a few cams and actually states the opposite and after about a 1mm lift increase, more does not help much and more duration helps more. I have done my own testing and believe the same thing, I am actually going down on lift now and back to more duration There are some very aggressive cams with 12mm lift, but whether or not that helps more is up to debate. I love the enem 9.6mm lift and 264 duration, tried the 10.4mm lift 276 duration enem and did not like them very much, power on too late for my 2.3 stroked motor. I am going to try another cam yet see how that works,

John
ill have to search on that. and i assume he tested them on saabs if so thats sweet.

i know that duration adds horsepower but it pushes it up futher in band. on the other hand lift adds low end power and mid range. the best way to add torque is lift and hp with duration from my understanding. you get good results when you do both. but theres a limit on drivability when you add too much duration at low rpm it will sound loby like a old school cammed v8. hard to idle. but youll make power top end. give and take.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:01 PM   #15
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Gotcha, ill have to look into that. Thanks.

Ive been thinking about swapping cams since i aquired the car, but i heard from some its not worth the effort, some say its better for T7 engines regardless. Ive never swapped out cams before, they relatively easy to do? I think i may of seen a write-up on it here once, i cant find it though. Lost in archives? I mean im pretty mechanicaly capable.
its better for car for power not for gas mpg. if your happy with stage 1 dont swap cams. if your looking for more power stage 3 or 4 then do it you can get t5 cams for 50$ sometimes cheaper.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:52 AM   #16
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hmm would those cams line up without having to time them like the b202 cams?
i was under the impression that they did, since the head deck height changed with the newer trionic heads. (see articles about mounting t5/7 heads to c900)

however, i wonder if this gap is in the "margin of error" that these cars naturally have when chains stretch. and guides get worn naturally causing things to be slightly misaligned

swap difficulty? not hard just line it up correctly, and crank the motor over once by hand with a ratchet before you start it. Do this to not only take up chain tension, but to also make sure your not completely fubared, and have valves interfearing with the pistons, on stock cams these cars seam to have a 2-3 tooth margin in any direction before bad things happen

Also, they are a great bang per buck upgrade, and due to there low cost, even if its only worth 8hp (im pretty sure they are worth more) its still a great deal
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:37 AM   #17
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So, would i benefit putting T5 cams in my b205r T7 suite stg 1? Would i have to modify the tune if i did?
I would spend money else where, go up to a stage 5, etc.. You need a bigger turbo first to feel the benefit of cams.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:01 AM   #18
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I would disagree on this statement, I have t5 cams in my stg 1 viggen and it made a big difference in the midrange and dyno sheets show a good 12whp gain and as much as 20 ft-lbs of torque through the mid-range.

My stg 1 viggen with t5 cams and 6cm2 turbine housing from 9k aero makes 270bhp no problem and it was definetely worth putting in t5 cams, the t5 cams have been well matched to the tdo4 for years, ie the 9k aero and the only reason the t7 cams are smaller is emissions and fuel economy retrraints.

You can get a set of t5 cams for 50 bucks and I can put in a set in about 30 minutes,

John
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:41 AM   #19
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I can confirm that the earlier B202 cams (as per the 1991 car at the start of the thread) do not time correctly in the T5 head/ sprockets. You can't just bolt in and expect them to be 'in spec'

This 'can' be used to your advantage but it's a bit extreme : eg. The timing of the B202 intake cam on a T5 car is either too advanced or very retarded depending on what tooth you go for on the sprocket. BUT in it's retarded position it's going to lift top end 6k rpm+ nicely. Just make sure you have a turbo that can flow up there.

And to add to the comments : The timing makes a huge difference. I played with advance on intake cam and swinging 10deg is not far off changing turbine housing in 'feel'

In my car I have B202 cams reground to 256/9.3mm and this shifted peak power from 6100rpm to 6600rpm. Given the cam duration isnt much different, most of this is down to timing. (which I spent hours messing with!)
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:02 PM   #20
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btw miked's got a ton of good sets of t5 cams if anyone's looking to upgrade!
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