Upgrade T-25 to T-28? - The Saab Link Forums

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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 11-03-2003, 06:35 PM   #1
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Upgrade T-25 to T-28?

I was thinking about upgrading the old and crappy T-25 i have in my 9-3, and putting in a T-28. I've heard that my T-25 is non- ball bearing, and i was wondering if the T-28 was.. because i know with a ball bearing turbo the spool up is a ton faster. any thoughts helpful
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Old 11-03-2003, 07:02 PM   #2
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Is this concerning the 9-3 Sports Sedan or the older 9-3?
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:38 PM   #3
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Im not completely sure about the bearing, but from the sound of it Garrett only uses ball bearing. Here's their website...maybe there is some useful info on there. http://www.turbobygarrett.com/
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:56 PM   #4
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its for a 2000 9-3 SE HOT 205hp .. which i have been told has a T-25 and not Mitsubishi TD04.. so i am feeling the need to upgrade.. and also i heard the T-25 isnt ball bearing.. from who, i dont remember
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Old 11-04-2003, 10:35 PM   #5
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Just switching the turbo wont give you much difference, maybe a little bit faster spool-up. To really enjoy a new turbo you´ll need a lot of more modifications done like intake, IC, injectors, new mapping and so on.
Regarding ball-bearings, you should steer clear of that. Ball-bearing turbos have much shorter lifespan than fluid-bearings, and the gain is almost nothing.
If you really feel the need to switch, go for the TD-04, but it wont fit straight on, rebuild is needed.
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:53 PM   #6
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ok.. well first off i do have mods, i have a viggen IC .. (stock) and i have an intake, a 3" dp , still getting the rest of my exhaust tho, also a bigger turbo inlet pipe from www.genuinesaab.com and i am planning on getting a PPC chip from them as well stage 3 .. all in eed really is a new clutch to withstand all the power.. oh yea and i have a dawes MBC
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:18 PM   #7
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It´s not certain that you will enjoy a performance boost from a new turbo anyway. As I read the Swedish SAAB forum for turbo upgrade almost everyone states that if you are to enjoy a new turbo, you´ll need new injectors, capable of more fuel, a new fuel pump to feed them AND you´ll need special mapped ECU-program to make sure the air-fuel-ratio stay right. The PPC (by BSR) even at stage 3, is optimized for standard injectors and standard turbo. Switching turbo may actually degrade performance as the ECU may overshoot the expected pressure and you will have fuel cut-off. It should learn the charcteristics of the new turbo, but you will see no extra boost, as that is controlled by the ECU regardless of turbo size. Also, bigger turbos are capable of higher boosts, yes, but also have longer spool-up, it´s a trade off.
Sure, the T-25 may not be rocket science, but it´s capable of <300hp so it should do for now. Turbos are not "forever" so my advice would be to run it as long as you can, and when it´s shot, get a TD-04. The boring part is to switch. Much work is needed to fit all hoses to a different turbo.

Clutch? Have you seen any slip so far? If not, you can surely drive a while longer on stock. It´s expensive to switch and stock should withstand 270hp if you try not to stress it too much.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:37 PM   #8
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awesome info, thanks. as far as clutch slippage, yes i have felt it. with the MBC installed my car boosts more and when i'm in first gear and i hit 4000rpm (hp peak) i guess, my wheels begin to spin, even with 4 ppl in the car.. and thats ot good for racing cause i cant gain traction.. one thing is i have stock tires and wheels, so i might just upgrade to 17's and get wider tires for grip so that will prolly solve that
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Old 11-09-2003, 09:53 AM   #9
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Be careful.

The T25 installed in the B204L motor was made specific for Saab. Be sure any turbo swap you have will line up with the exhaust manifold, downpipe and hard lines.

T28 upgrade will actually lag a little more than the T25 due to the larger rotational mass. However, this can be addressed by an SMBC installation.

The main reason you want to go with the T28 upgrade is volumetric capacity. The T28 is capable of flowing more air than the T25. As your motor RPMs increase, it needs more air. The T25 cannot flow enough above 3500rpm to keep up with the demands of your engine. PSI can be sustained a little higher rpm due to the fact that the T25 heats up.

Any of the available Stage I kits from BSR, SQR, Abbott or Maptun will be compatible with the T28 as they allow higher boost and run open loop at WOT. The a/f feedback loop will ensure proper fueling from the injectors and the Stage I boost levels are well within the capabilities of the T28.

To max out on the T28 capabilities you definitely need to explore improving your fueling via new fuel maps, injectors, rrfpr, fuel pump.. etc. But you will definitely see a high rpm benefit from the T28 alone.

I am investigating upgrading my injectors to 42lb bosch, but these are sold in sets of 8. Let me know if you want to split a set with me.
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:06 AM   #10
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You may find the T28 a little too laggy. The TD04 is a proven and effective upgrade. However, also worth considering is a T28/T25 hybrid, utilizing a T25 turbine and a T28 compressor. Spool up characteristics aren't too different to a stock T25, but with the added flow capacity of the T28.

You will get a noticeable difference using either of these on standard or uprated software. For maximum benefit though, a custom remap would optimize things nicely. 3" dp, sport exhaust, intercooler would be worth doing first though
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Old 12-05-2003, 10:54 AM   #11
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Hey all, lemme clear up a few things.

The T-28 can be made from the stock T-25. So if a rebuild/upgrade is planned it will save money and definetly fit.

My T-28 was installed at the same time I did my VIC, MBC, and had my transition castings extrude honed. I noticed absolutly no extra Lag.

Performance wise, I can really say what it did, seeing as how I added so many extra things.

Durability, a bearing did by freak occurance spit in half. I was told this only happens from oil starvation of the turbo, and there had been no evidence of that happening.
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Old 12-05-2003, 11:00 AM   #12
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Hey all, lemme clear up a few things.

The T-28 can be made from the stock T-25. So if a rebuild/upgrade is planned it will save money and definetly fit.

My T-28 was installed at the same time I did my VIC, MBC, and had my transition castings extrude honed. I noticed absolutly no extra Lag.

Performance wise, I can really say what it did, seeing as how I added so many extra things.

Durability, a bearing did by freak occurance spit in half. I was told this only happens from oil starvation of the turbo, and there had been no evidence of that happening.
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:04 PM   #13
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well i've basicly have the same car and i was told i have a TD04 turbo in my HOT, same as the Viggen...

where did you hear it was a T25?

i have a 2000 9-3se HOT
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:11 PM   #14
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saab4life...your car is a T7 engine right?...how are you running and MBC...there are no problems at all?
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Old 12-10-2003, 08:48 AM   #15
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Tweek...how much was your T25-T28 upgrade? Im starting to debate weather or not to upgrade to a TD04, or to rebuild my T25 to T28. I heard that although the TD04 will boost to redline, you sacrifice spool time.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:39 PM   #16
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When buying a TD04, keep in mind there are two versions for Saab. Turbo's fitted on T5 equipped cars (9000 Aero) and T7 equipped cars (9-5 Aero and 9-3 Viggen).

The TD04HL-15T-6 was used on the 9000 Aero. The 6 version is capable of more hp at the expense of spoolup time. The area where the exhaust gasses leave the manifold and enter the turbo is slightly larger and has a different shape. Because of the smaller turbine inletport of the Viggen spec turbo (TD04HL-15T-5), gasses will enter the turbo at a higher speed and make the turbo spool up faster. At very high revs it's a bit more restrictive compared to the 9000 Aero spec TD04.
Another difference is the turbo intakepipe, your old T5 pipe won't fit on a T7 turbo. A different intake pipe will require a different fitting for the crankcase ventilation as well.

Compared to the stock T25, the TD04HL-15T-5 has just a little more lag. With the TD04HL-15T-6 it will be a bit more noticable. The difference isn't big, but on your own car you'll feel every change. What will be more obvious is the extra power from 4500 until the redline. This is where the T25 runs out of breath.

To avoid having to adjust all the hardlines, a T25/28 might be a good alternative.
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Old 12-27-2003, 11:16 AM   #17
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Ced it only cost me $450, but I had to send it back a second time since the bearing in it snapped in half. They rebuild it for free, but it cost me $800 for removal and installation.
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:17 PM   #18
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hmm...i say fit an hks T78 turbo with 850cc injectors
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:00 PM   #19
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Yes i have a T7 and ask boxerchip how to put it in, cuz he gave me a diagram that helped.. and no, no problems yet, but i need to get an ecu cuz its not good to boost without the added fuel and such, running too lean is very dangerous
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