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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 10-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #1
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gt2860rs, The disco potato

The gt2860rs double ball bearing turbo.
Does anyone use one of these?Garrett GT2860RS
I'm looking to shoot somewhere like 330ish HP and I want the fastest spool up possible.
It looks like the inlet flange is the same but the exhaust is a 5 bolt flange. Do you use one of these V-band adaptors on your downpipe?T25 to V-Band Adaptor Flange
Or would I be better of getting one of these bell mouth downpipe flanges made up Turbo Exhaust 3" DownPipe 08+ Lancer Evo X 10 Down Pipe | eBay
Now doing all this will cost (approx) $1500 +.
OR should I go More bang for my buck and buy a Ebay 19T journal bearing at $800 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SAAB-AERO...item2567ae0e08
This car is my daily driver and I'm trying to keep the drivability of the car as high as I can.
Cheers
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:36 AM   #2
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Never used one personally but ive heard nothing but praise for the GT28RS, Its an expensive option and only offers similar power/spool up to a TD04-19T but the Garrett is a much nicer turbo. Id go for the smaller 0.64A/R or is it 0.63 version? for the quickest spool which will easily give you 330bhp.

Id go for the 5 bolt flange to 3" V-band adaptor and the have a 3" V-band fabricated into your downpipe personally, You might also need an exhaust manifold to cylinder head spacer which NickT sells on the GenuineSaab website and if your currently running a TD04 you will need to change the Oil/Water lines to the turbo and fit an Oil restrictor in the Oil feed line to the turbo.

Hope that helps, Regards Simon

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:12 AM   #3
 
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Holsets are available for much less money and offer more top end and comparable spool times. They're also MUCH easier to rebuild. I went with a GT3071 years ago because I got it at a great price for the time, but since then the Holsets have shown great promise....
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:33 AM   #4
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If you have a good turbo shop around that does it's own work you could also consider upgrading your original stock 15T to a 19T. Or maybe pickup a good used one that's to be rebuilt anyway.

I had it scheduled with the shop, unbolted the stock unit, took it to them, went and picked it up a few days later, and bolted it back on. Stock oil and coolant lines, same mounting, same downpipe and inlet connections.

Don't what I paid to have that done, there's machining involved, and I had it rebuilt at the same time, but it was pretty inexpensive compared to re-fitting for a disco potato.

If you go that direction, be sure to have the exhaust clipped!
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
If you have a good turbo shop around that does it's own work you could also consider upgrading your original stock 15T to a 19T. Or maybe pickup a good used one that's to be rebuilt anyway.

I had it scheduled with the shop, unbolted the stock unit, took it to them, went and picked it up a few days later, and bolted it back on. Stock oil and coolant lines, same mounting, same downpipe and inlet connections.

Don't what I paid to have that done, there's machining involved, and I had it rebuilt at the same time, but it was pretty inexpensive compared to re-fitting for a disco potato.

If you go that direction, be sure to have the exhaust clipped!
I've got a T-25 stock unit on. I was going to go the T-28 upgrade (g pop shop) but my contact in the U.S has gone a bit quite of late.(Gpop does'nt deal with international customers,needs a 3 party)and noone over here has even heard of the upgrade and want to charge crazy prices to do it.
The 19 T seems like the easy answer and cheaper,
But now I'm think Holset

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Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
Holsets are available for much less money and offer more top end and comparable spool times. They're also MUCH easier to rebuild. I went with a GT3071 years ago because I got it at a great price for the time, but since then the Holsets have shown great promise....
Holset huh,I think I need to do a bit more research on that. Can you get adaptors to make it fit or do you need to use one of vigges maifolds.
And also are all holsets external wastgates.I'm going on ebay now and look up some HX 35's.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:56 PM   #6
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How about this, But it needs a rebuild holset turbo hx35 truck car ute sedan intercooler v8 | eBay
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:09 PM   #7
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You could still always start with a 15T and still save some money.

After assisting with the tune on Comtrang's 2.0L HX35 T5 car, I can tell you that a large frame turbo like that is quite a bit different in spool and transient response to a 19T. I've only been in one 2860 car, so I can't really compare, but I'd think that's gonna be closer to a 19T.

You said you're looking for 330HP, is that at the crank or the wheels? If you're talking wheel, I have a graph somewhere where I overlayed an estimated air demand on top of the compressor efficiency map. The graph is based-upon real back calculated volumetric efficiency from Dynojet runs that gave right at 320 wheel HP. Stock B205 engine with stock cams.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:13 PM   #8
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This was awhile back, and I figured this is what it wouldn've looke like at 340wheel, looking back, it's probalby a little optimistic for the pressure on stock cams:

Here's another, 295wheel, back calculated from a real run if I remember right:
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:19 PM   #9
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So 330wheel (Dynojet) is well covered and is gonna be somewhere around there. It's not gonna pull anywhere close to what a HX35 can do, but in a race a 19T will pull a few car lengths while the 35 is still thinking about spooling...and then that 35 will pass you like you're standing still (unless it's brake boosted, of course).

I put a lot of miles on my original 19T build and it was a total hoot; it still broke the tires loose at 50mph in 2nd gear, even at 189k miles and with a crack in number 4 piston between the ring lands. It was enough to pull a full car length on a 6.0GTO 400/400 with something other than stock exhaust, Holden I guess for you, from like 60-110. It is hard to get the boost control right, but that's another issue.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:35 PM   #10
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Sorry for all the posts, things are slowly coming back to me as I think about this more.

Anyway, I put this together years ago, in fact it's probably posted here someplace else too. I think "Super 60" is the Disco Potato wheel? Someone correct me if that's not right.

Regardless, I'm sure someone could help with the shipping if you didn't mind waiting. Turbochargers.com is like 30 minutes from my house..


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Old 10-15-2011, 04:48 PM   #11
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This guy can tell you about the T-25 upgrade, maybe he'll see this: The Saab Link Forums - View Profile: David in Tallahassee
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
This guy can tell you about the T-25 upgrade, maybe he'll see this: The Saab Link Forums - View Profile: David in Tallahassee
I've been talking to David.But he's been a bit quite lately.He pretty much convinced me to go the T-28. But you are putting up an exellent defence for the 19T

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Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
You could still always start with a 15T and still save some money.

After assisting with the tune on Comtrang's 2.0L HX35 T5 car, I can tell you that a large frame turbo like that is quite a bit different in spool and transient response to a 19T. I've only been in one 2860 car, so I can't really compare, but I'd think that's gonna be closer to a 19T.
Now that I have my head screwed back on again I think the Holset is not really what I want

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Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
You said you're looking for 330HP, is that at the crank or the wheels? If you're talking wheel, I have a graph somewhere where I overlayed an estimated air demand on top of the compressor efficiency map. The graph is based-upon real back calculated volumetric efficiency from Dynojet runs that gave right at 320 wheel HP. Stock B205 engine with stock cams.
I'm looking for 330ish at the wheels.The 19T seems like a very good option.
Does anyone rate these ebay 19T's SAAB AERO 9-3 9-5 B235R Upgrade TD04HL-19T Turbo 0.8bar | eBay It is about my only option if I want a TD04
Thanks for your input Drew, Great advice
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:35 PM   #13
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No problem at all.

On that ebay unit, the 6cm^2 housings that I've seen off of 9000 Aeros had an oval inlet. The regular old 15T 5cm^2 bodies are round like that.

Don't go 19T on my account, I'm just sharing what I know. If you do go 19T though, make sure, make sure, make sure that you have the turbine clipped. Otherwise you get a dyno graph straight out of opposite-world where the torque spikes and the HP falls like to stock levels by max rpm... Which doesn't make a fast car.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:13 PM   #14
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No problem at all.

On that ebay unit, the 6cm^2 housings that I've seen off of 9000 Aeros had an oval inlet. The regular old 15T 5cm^2 bodies are round like that.

Don't go 19T on my account, I'm just sharing what I know. If you do go 19T though, make sure, make sure, make sure that you have the turbine clipped. Otherwise you get a dyno graph straight out of opposite-world where the torque spikes and the HP falls like to stock levels by max rpm... Which doesn't make a fast car.
I'm not buying one right away I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I make a final decision
So chances are this ebay unit would not have the exhaust clipped then.What do you think?
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:39 AM   #15
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I really don't know. I wonder if it's based-on something that someone built from a TD04HL-15T or if it's somethig else? I know oVlov had some 19T's stock from the factory.

There are blanks on the body of the stock Saab turbos, so I would guess the difference between the "Saab" Mitsu TD04 turbo and any other brands might be which oil/coolant ports are used and which are blanked off. That's speculation on my part but it would make sense. I've seen TD04's for Saabs that had threaded plugs instead of blanks too.

For sure though, the oval exhaust inlet port on a 9000 Aero turbo is an indication of the 6cm^2 housing. You'll want to open the port on your stock exhaust manifold if you go that direction; that's just a matter of a little time with a grinder though. Whether there's a 6cm^2 or larger with a round inlet? I don't know. It would be cool if there was more like a 10cm^2 option (or even larger), and there may be now, there wasn't any known at the time I built mine.

From talking with David, I wouldn't hesitate to go the way he went either.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:12 AM   #16
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I didn't read most of this thread, but I had a HKS GT2530 (which is basically a rebranded disco potato, which is slightly larger than a OEM S15 turbo) on a SR20DET motor in a 240, which I believe flows better than a saab motor (and revs higher).

Conditions aside, I believe I got 290whp on that car and was close to maxing the turbo out.

Basically IMO, the GT-RS is too small for anything over 300whp. If spool is your priority and you want 330hp CRANK, pretty much a big T28/19T will get you there for much cheaper and be rebuildable. But that would be maxing those turbos out, personally I would suggest a GT3071R or even a GT2871R, although I believe Nick from GS tested them and they had similar spool, but more top end on the former.

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Old 10-16-2011, 10:05 AM   #17
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About five years ago had the gt28rs in my viggen for half year before I swapped it out for 3071 since the "wish" for whp has far more than that turbo could deliver. Dynoed it with a conservative tune to ~300whp, plot like this.

Registry suited well what ever type driving, without blindspots.
Performance was tested to be indentical to 341bhp M3 BMW in road racing.

I built my set-up for the gt28rs so that the same mani would also fit a 3071 since I already knew at the time that tuning will go on and a bigger turbo will be needed
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