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Old 04-20-2011, 08:49 PM   #1
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4.45 Final drive gear set

Anybody else using this yet? I'm really tempted to pick this up and install before my 9-3 tranny goes in this summer. The only thing that worries me is gas mileage since I still daily this car and gas mileage is crappy enough as is around Utah.

Other than that, seems like this would give the car a lot of potential from a dig. If I'm not planning to drag the car a ton, then there may be no point and the 9-3 transmission alone might be enough to help me from a roll?

Thoughts?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:37 PM   #2
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I hope you have a LSD, as first gear is already pretty useless once you hit boost. I guess it depends on if you can go through first without building too much boost, and keep the tires hooked in 2nd once the boost comes on.

I wouldn't put it in a DD, as I already turn 2800RPM or so at 75ish. Going to go up a bit, hurting fuel economy.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by PimpMyPc View Post
I hope you have a LSD, as first gear is already pretty useless once you hit boost. I guess it depends on if you can go through first without building too much boost, and keep the tires hooked in 2nd once the boost comes on.

I wouldn't put it in a DD, as I already turn 2800RPM or so at 75ish. Going to go up a bit, hurting fuel economy.
The only time I had issues with traction in first gear was on the stock turbo. Boost comes in much later now (until further tuning) and isn't as peaky as the T25 was. First gear was completely useless on that turbo and I hated it. Once I get it tuned in with current turbo, traction shouldn't be an issue.

Having larger wheels helped bring rpm down quite a bit but I think the 9-3 transmission + 4.45 final drive will make a pretty good impact. I managed 38mpg on 100% driving so who knows how much that could drop.

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Old 04-21-2011, 05:19 AM   #4
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What is the 4.45 final drive out of?
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by comtrang View Post
Anybody else using this yet? I'm really tempted to pick this up and install before my 9-3 tranny goes in this summer. The only thing that worries me is gas mileage since I still daily this car and gas mileage is crappy enough as is around Utah.

Other than that, seems like this would give the car a lot of potential from a dig. If I'm not planning to drag the car a ton, then there may be no point and the 9-3 transmission alone might be enough to help me from a roll?

Thoughts?
Do you not remember me doing this years ago and all the crap I got from the big boys? They are both now using this set-up

Been running them for years, its awesome, my 9k aero with 4.45 and lsd is a monster on e85 and stock turbo, it crushes m3s at the road race course and just about everything else out there, lapped the entire field twice in a 10 lap session last year...

John
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:10 AM   #6
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What is the 4.45 final drive out of?
i know its supposed to be in the V6 trans, but not sure if it holds true in both the manual and/or the auto
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Do you not remember me doing this years ago and all the crap I got from the big boys? They are both now using this set-up

Been running them for years, its awesome, my 9k aero with 4.45 and lsd is a monster on e85 and stock turbo, it crushes m3s at the road race course and just about everything else out there, lapped the entire field twice in a 10 lap session last year...

John
I do not remember but only cause I wasn't at the stage of needing it so probably slipped my mind

Any acceleration data from before and after? I know it along with the timing changes I've made since I last measured 60-90 should give me a much less laughable time how bad was gas mileage affected?

I just sold an old MacBook I had for $275 - the exact same price for the final drive set. I think it's a sign.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:17 AM   #8
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Been running them for years, its awesome, my 9k aero with 4.45 and lsd is a monster on e85 and stock turbo, it crushes m3s at the road race course and just about everything else out there, lapped the entire field twice in a 10 lap session last year...
Was this the track day we attended last year? The next track day is June 5th. We need to be in the same run group this time.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:32 AM   #9
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Yea, I want to do some more road racing this year, I went out a few more times to the winter lapping days ! Much more relaxed, just one open session all day, you just go out when ready and come in when you are tired

I have the 9k set up very nicely now, the e85 and 4.45 is a great combo as you know yourself since you got to ride in Gary Wolf's 9k that was so fast at the track in Montana,

John
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:36 AM   #10
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One can always toss in a .66 5th wheel from a 9-3/9-5 box to make the fifth 6% taller to make cruising more economical. Will be still short but alot better imho than the orig .7 fifth which the 4.45 has.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by comtrang View Post
I do not remember but only cause I wasn't at the stage of needing it so probably slipped my mind

Any acceleration data from before and after? I know it along with the timing changes I've made since I last measured 60-90 should give me a much less laughable time how bad was gas mileage affected?

I just sold an old MacBook I had for $275 - the exact same price for the final drive set. I think it's a sign.
It depends on how you drive, Gary Wolf just drives a little slower and it does not effect it much at all.

I have checked the rpm and at 75mph, its 3100rpm on my tach and at 85mph, its about 3400-3500rpm, so the mileage does go down a good bit at the higher speeds, but its nice to actually have the car responsive and crisp at 65-85mph in 5th gear.

The other option is to put the 5th gear out of the 93 that is taller and that will work more like an over-drive, good cruising rpm for highway. I did not do this as Gary was adiment this would hurt me at the road race course where we regularaly hit over 155-165mph, it would not be in line with the other 4 gears and that would not work well in racing when you go from 4th to 5th and have it spaced completely different and more like an over-drive, good for milage, bad for racing acceleration.

Acceleration and spool up of a large turbo is helped a ton by the shorter gearing, its a huge advantage, even the 9k with tdo4 and 4.45 gearing is a rocket ship and I would say would beat a stg 5 ng900 no problem.

John
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:52 AM   #12
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If one has 3100rpm for 75mph in fifth with orig 4.45 box, the rpm will be 2900 if 5th drive taken from 9-3box.

The biggest problem with the 4.45 box imho is that that the 3rd is too short and requires alot of tq limiting if you dont wish to put power to pure tire smoke
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:47 PM   #13
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I have not had too much trouble with my 9k and stg 4 with good tires. Last year the race car also had no trouble with slicks either, but we did discuss whether to run the older ng900 longer third gear or the newer 93 third gear and we ended up running the longer, maybe stronger, third gear from the ng900 or 9k.

I love the 4.45, its a mean machine, makes a T25 9k cse stg 3 a beast...

John
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge View Post
One can always toss in a .66 5th wheel from a 9-3/9-5 box to make the fifth 6% taller to make cruising more economical. Will be still short but alot better imho than the orig .7 fifth which the 4.45 has.
If I'm installing just the FD from the 4.45 box into the 9-3 box with original 9-3 gearset, isn't this the same idea? I don't know the ratios of the 4.45 box.


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If one has 3100rpm for 75mph in fifth with orig 4.45 box, the rpm will be 2900 if 5th drive taken from 9-3box.

The biggest problem with the 4.45 box imho is that that the 3rd is too short and requires alot of tq limiting if you dont wish to put power to pure tire smoke
After torque limiting, though, did you find better acceleration times?
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JZW View Post
It depends on how you drive, Gary Wolf just drives a little slower and it does not effect it much at all.

I have checked the rpm and at 75mph, its 3100rpm on my tach and at 85mph, its about 3400-3500rpm, so the mileage does go down a good bit at the higher speeds, but its nice to actually have the car responsive and crisp at 65-85mph in 5th gear.

The other option is to put the 5th gear out of the 93 that is taller and that will work more like an over-drive, good cruising rpm for highway. I did not do this as Gary was adiment this would hurt me at the road race course where we regularaly hit over 155-165mph, it would not be in line with the other 4 gears and that would not work well in racing when you go from 4th to 5th and have it spaced completely different and more like an over-drive, good for milage, bad for racing acceleration.

Acceleration and spool up of a large turbo is helped a ton by the shorter gearing, its a huge advantage, even the 9k with tdo4 and 4.45 gearing is a rocket ship and I would say would beat a stg 5 ng900 no problem.

John
I'm confused again here - did you get your hands on the entire box that has the 4.45 final drive? I assumed what Nick was stocking to be just the final drive that I would be swapping out with the 99-02 9-3's 4.05 final drive. I assumed you to already be running the 9-3's transmission in your cars and thus wouldn't need to pull that 5th gear out from another tranny.

Sorry, not quite following.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:26 PM   #16
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I think only the f35 viggen tranny has the taller 5th gear?
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:51 PM   #17
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Anyone know what final drive is in the NA NG900's?
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:52 PM   #18
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I'm confused again here - did you get your hands on the entire box that has the 4.45 final drive? I assumed what Nick was stocking to be just the final drive that I would be swapping out with the 99-02 9-3's 4.05 final drive. I assumed you to already be running the 9-3's transmission in your cars and thus wouldn't need to pull that 5th gear out from another tranny.

Sorry, not quite following.
You can do it that way also, but then you will end up with even shorter 3rd, since the drive is 1.18 in 9-3 and 1.12 in the NG box.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:54 PM   #19
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I think only the f35 viggen tranny has the taller 5th gear?
9-5, 9-3 both T7 and T5 have the taller 5th.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:47 AM   #20
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I have checked the rpm and at 75mph, its 3100rpm on my tach and at 85mph, its about 3400-3500rpm, so the mileage does go down a good bit at the higher speeds, but its nice to actually have the car responsive and crisp at 65-85mph in 5th gear.
uh im confused. isnt this a shorter FD? if so it will increase mpg not decrease.

its been argued to death and proved with logs in hondas. while your cruising at a higher rpm, your are using LESS throttle input due to the nice torque multiplication, so less throttle input to both hold a speed and get the car moving.



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