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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 03-13-2010, 10:38 AM   #21
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So here's some pics, please excuse the mess it's an old barn I was doin this in:
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:09 AM   #22
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O.k. so pics below are meant to illustrate the basic idea for measuring camber and "average" toe.

Here's the procedure and results:
Make sure you level the axle before doing this, it will give you more accurate measurements. By extending bars outwards as I did, you are basically using a method known as "similar triangles". If the bars are straight, by magnifying the difference between measurements by extending the surfaces, the measurements become more accurate. tan^-1 (inverse tangent) is used to find each angle, but for small angles, inverse sine could also be used. Make sure you have 2 levels, a pair of calipers, and a tape measure handy.
So, in pic 1 you can see I measured across the hub mounting faces using the tape measure, extended two straight bars outwards a known length (16" in my case), made sure they were level with each other,and measured again.
In pic 2, I clamped the bar to each hub mount face, leveled it out vertically and held a 24" level against it, firm against the top surface of the hub mount. I then very carefully pulled the base of the level out until the bubble became perfectly centered in the viewing window, and measured the gap with the calipers at the bottom where the level was pulled away.
Here are the calculations:
***Note: make sure your calculator is in degree and not radian mode.***
"Average" Toe:
X=[(measurement across back)-(measurement across front)]/2
Y=distance between front and back measurement.

tan^-1(X/Y)=degrees toe

Camber:
X=distance level needed to be pulled out to center bubble.
Y=Length of level

tan^-1(X/Y)=degrees negative camber
(very unlikely you would have positive camber on one of these axles, if you did, when you pulled the level away, the bubble would get further from being centered.

My measurements for toe were X=1/8" & Y=16", so my average toe came out to be .2235 degrees per side.

For camber, my X=.5-.51" per side and Y=24", so my camber came out to ~1.22 degrees per side.
I think these measurements are pretty good, Justinjameshayes (who I bought the axle from) informed me the tire wear was good on the car this axle came off of (straight wear right across the tread) and this really confirms that. I would have liked to have checked toe per side and not just the average, but I had to get the axle to the weld shop to get braced up so I didn't have time.
Abbott Racing specifies 1 degree negative camber and 20 minutes of toe in for optimum handling and roadholding.
Saab factory specs are -2.1 to -1.1 degrees negative camber and 1mm toe out to 3mm toe in for a 16” tire and wheel package (didn’t do the math on this one).
Well, 1.2 degrees negative camber is pretty close to 1 degree negative camber and any small changes can be made with shims available form genuinesaab.
When talking degrees, 1 minute is equal to 1/60 of a degree, so 20 minutes is actually equal to 20/60=1/3 of a degree, or .333 degrees. I measured about .2235 degrees average, so this is also pretty close. I would say this is a pretty straight axle and it will be interesting to see how close my measurements were when I get a four wheel alignment done in the near future. I will keep you guys posted and put some pics up when I get the axle back form the weld shop.
Hope this helps people out in the future.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Avg toe.jpg (107.4 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Camber.jpg (88.7 KB, 41 views)
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Old 03-14-2010, 07:12 AM   #23
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Impressive

Hey man. Let me just say, amazing what you've got so far. After we talked at MiccyDee's I went home and tried to sketch what you were saying. I'm thankful for this post, as I didn't get very far.

Also, I'm sorry the axle wasn't 100%. The tread on the tires are dead even at 7/32, in and outside, from the car that axle was taken from.

At any rate, thanks for the pics and the awesome explanations. I'm pulling my donor axle tomorrow... and bringing it right to the shop to get a brace welded. I'll take pics and post em. Keep the progress coming!
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinjameshayes View Post
Hey man. Let me just say, amazing what you've got so far. After we talked at MiccyDee's I went home and tried to sketch what you were saying. I'm thankful for this post, as I didn't get very far.

Also, I'm sorry the axle wasn't 100%. The tread on the tires are dead even at 7/32, in and outside, from the car that axle was taken from.

At any rate, thanks for the pics and the awesome explanations. I'm pulling my donor axle tomorrow... and bringing it right to the shop to get a brace welded. I'll take pics and post em. Keep the progress coming!
Nice-glad for the extra info on the tire tread that gives me some piece of mind that it will be straight.
Hope your axle comes out nice, make sure you check it before you brace it up.
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Reinforced rear axle completed and installed!

Last edited by a12; 03-15-2010 at 03:49 PM. Reason: wrong
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:37 PM   #25
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So I took the axle to a weld shop and it sat there for a week and a half. The guy never started it, said he had "bigger jobs to do" every time I called.
So me and my buddy from Uconn (both ME students there) went with his pickup truck and got it, brought it to an undisclosed shop and Tig welded it ourselves. He's on the Uconn Formula car performance team and is a pretty good tig welder.
It came out really nice, it's reinforced with the chromemoly at 3 different surfaces on each side of the axle.
It was then painted with Duplicolor Black brake caliper paint which almost dries to a powdercoat-like finish.
I hope to get it on this Friday (Good Friday) and take it to the Uconn car show next weekend (April 10th).

I will post up some pics soon.
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:20 PM   #26
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Nice to someone doing more than strap-ons, oops I meant bolt-ons, and calling it 'custom'.
Love the ingenuity - keep it up!


p.s. Pics or it didn't happen
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #27
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I'm interested how this turns out. Best of luck to you a12!
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:32 AM   #28
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Here's a bunch of pics of what I did to brace it:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1633.jpg (424.7 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1634.jpg (431.9 KB, 37 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_1637.jpg (420.3 KB, 23 views)
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a12 View Post
Here's a bunch of pics of what I did to brace it:
Looks good. Interested in how it drives!
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:39 AM   #30
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And more....
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Marks9-3 View Post
Looks good. Interested in how it drives!
Drives much better!
It is driving straighter even though my steering wheel is crooked now-I must have been correcting for this that much and didn't even know it. My old axle had 6 degrees negative camber on the drivers side before I shimmed it with 1 thick and 2 thin shims (which is actually more than you are supposed to put), and even then I think it was at like 3 or 3.5 degrees on that side, AND the toe was way out too. The front of that rear driver's side tire was actually sticking out when it's supposed to be slightly pointed inward.
I have to get an alignment but I can say for sure it already feels better and is driving straighter.

I put one thin shim on each side of this axle, just for good measure. We will see how it is when i get an alignment.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #32
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You can see in the pics there are 3 different points of reinforcement on each side:

1. Webbing between twist axle and axle arm that hubs are bolted to. (3/16" thick 4130 chromemoly plate).
2. 1" O.D. 4130 chromemoly tubing (.095" wall thickness) from front of hub mount to axle arm.
3. Triangulated pieces added to rear portion of hub mount upright (also 3/16" thick chromemoly).
These were all tig welded as well.
I figured I did not need to triangulate the front of the hub mount upright as Yankton had done since the tubing was already there for reinforcement to arm portion.
Also, we finish welding the seams where they welded those arms onto the twist beam. They had not welded it all the way at the factory so we completed it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:47 PM   #33
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This is very impressive a12. Being an tech who does alignments regularly makes me appreciate the math involved and also the ideas towards fixing my own problem of rear camber and toe issues. My rear measurements are not nearly as horrendous as yours were to start so I doubt my repairs will be this lengthy. Have you had your alignment done yet? If so I'd be interested to know what your final measurements were in the rear of the car.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:31 AM   #34
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thumbs up &...

First of all, thumbs up for all this info... After all, there are guys that share the info gathered from R&D...you know who I`m talking about
Secondly, why the heck you are all the way over the Ocean
I could`ve benefit your expertize in my Viggen ReAxs project
So it`s up to me to go where no man has gone before and mount that 9-3SS Rear Axle on my Conv. Viggen

P.S. If you have any tips on this, please chime in my thread "my project", in this section

Many thanks!

P.S.2. do you happen to know the height of the 9-3og lowering springs?

Best regards to one of the most technical guys here!
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:54 PM   #35
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Wow I didn't expect to see people talking about fabrication on this site. When I lurked on Pirate4x4.com during my Jeep days, I saw lots of axle reinforcing ideas. Those guys were breaking axles doing crazy stuff a Saab would never experience though. Looks like you're on the right track so far.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:32 PM   #36
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This is very impressive a12. Being an tech who does alignments regularly makes me appreciate the math involved and also the ideas towards fixing my own problem of rear camber and toe issues. My rear measurements are not nearly as horrendous as yours were to start so I doubt my repairs will be this lengthy. Have you had your alignment done yet? If so I'd be interested to know what your final measurements were in the rear of the car.
Thanks-actually haven't done the alignment yet, have to change my tie rod ends (they're frozen/rusted-can't adjust) so I'm gonna do that then get it aligned.
Even without alignment info, i can tell you the car tracks much straighter and tire wear is greatly decreased, sseems to grip about the same in the back.
I know my angle measurement is not digital and super precise, but it will get you pretty damned close without going out and buying a bunch of expensive equipment.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:34 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by av_dumitrascu View Post
First of all, thumbs up for all this info... After all, there are guys that share the info gathered from R&D...you know who I`m talking about
Secondly, why the heck you are all the way over the Ocean
I could`ve benefit your expertize in my Viggen ReAxs project
So it`s up to me to go where no man has gone before and mount that 9-3SS Rear Axle on my Conv. Viggen

P.S. If you have any tips on this, please chime in my thread "my project", in this section

Many thanks!

P.S.2. do you happen to know the height of the 9-3og lowering springs?

Best regards to one of the most technical guys here!
Haha yeah sorry about that other side of the ocean thing!
Not sure how high stock 9-3og springs are, I guess I could measure one.
Are you taking a 9-3ss axle and putting it on a viggen?
That sounds awesome, I'll have to check out your sight.
Only advice I can give on that is make sure all your parts are in good condition (not bent) before starting, and take accurate measurements.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:42 AM   #38
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Haha yeah sorry about that other side of the ocean thing!
Not sure how high stock 9-3og springs are, I guess I could measure one.
Are you taking a 9-3ss axle and putting it on a viggen?
That sounds awesome, I'll have to check out your sight.
Only advice I can give on that is make sure all your parts are in good condition (not bent) before starting, and take accurate measurements.
The race rear springs for the 9-3og from Nick T. (Eibach) are some 18 cm long, while the 9-3SS Vector rear springs are 28 cm (but fur more softer)...
How long are your 9-3og rear springs?
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