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Old 10-13-2009, 08:10 AM   #1
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Should I upgrade fuel injectors for a TD04?

Just bought a used TD04 - 15t and JZW tune. The guy said that he ran about 24 psi with it, and it's a conservative tune. I don't think he upgraded injectors or any other fuel components, but should I? I always thought that stage 5 was the approximate place to upgrade the injectors and FPR. On the RC fuel injection calculator, they're saying 62 lb/hr injectors are necessary (I just guessed 300 bhp to be safe, 80% duty cycle, 43.5 psig at fuel rail). What are the stock ones? One of my buddies seems concerned about it...so I figured I would check and see what others were doing. thanks all.

EDIT: Looking at eeuroparts, the viggen appears to use higher rate injectors...
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:02 AM   #2
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My 96 900 w/15t-6cm, 2.3 swap still has the stock 34# injectors. I've got about 30,000 miles on the setup and the p.o. did about 15,000 with it....no problems.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:07 AM   #3
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24 psi on a TD04 sounds like a lot. I almost did the swap last summer and was wondering the same thing. I was told the stock injectors will suffice
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:10 AM   #4
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Thanks for the input so far. Sounds like it should be fine then. Looking at Jak Stoll's site, it would seem the stock injectors would be okay, but that calculator made it sound otherwise.

I thought 24 psi sounded high too. It was made to be a conservative tune (or so I was told) for a daily driver, stage 3 is what the ecu says. I guess i'll find out what it will actually boost to this weekend...maybe his gauge was off. I know mine reads up to 17, almost 18 sometimes (which is obviously not true since cut-off is at 15.5)

How come you didn't do the swap?
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveiron9688 View Post
Just bought a used TD04 - 15t and JZW tune. The guy said that he ran about 24 psi with it, and it's a conservative tune. I don't think he upgraded injectors or any other fuel components, but should I? I always thought that stage 5 was the approximate place to upgrade the injectors and FPR. On the RC fuel injection calculator, they're saying 62 lb/hr injectors are necessary (I just guessed 300 bhp to be safe, 80% duty cycle, 43.5 psig at fuel rail). What are the stock ones? One of my buddies seems concerned about it...so I figured I would check and see what others were doing. thanks all.

EDIT: Looking at eeuroparts, the viggen appears to use higher rate injectors...

See what boost it runs on your car, the first owner may have increased base boost to get it that high. See what it runs on your car and you may find its more like 20-21psi and if you lower the base boost a hair, it may even run a little lower. Each car is a little different. See how it runs and then make adjustents if needed.

Usually don't need the green giants until you go to the 18t.

John
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:59 PM   #6
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How come you didn't do the swap?
I am capable of doing only minor work to my car (exhaust, ic, intake, suspension). Never got to learn the internals of cars much as a kid.

I had a much larger issue last summer when my stock turbo blew and it caused a few other engine problems. I had an aero td04 (with JSP tune) to replace the gt17 with, and after a lot of time spent waiting, my mechanic wasn't willing to custom fit the thing on my car. So, back to the gt17. I'll probably get a regular td04 and do it myself sometime in the future. Seems pretty straightforward.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JZW View Post
See what boost it runs on your car, the first owner may have increased base boost to get it that high. See what it runs on your car and you may find its more like 20-21psi and if you lower the base boost a hair, it may even run a little lower. Each car is a little different. See how it runs and then make adjustents if needed.

Usually don't need the green giants until you go to the 18t.

John
Sounds good, just the guy I was hoping to hear from. Hopefully within a couple years I can get my T25 machined into the T25/28 hybrid and get a new tune. But I will need injectors at that point, and now I need to focus on brakes with the pennies I have left over

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I am capable of doing only minor work to my car (exhaust, ic, intake, suspension). Never got to learn the internals of cars much as a kid.

I had a much larger issue last summer when my stock turbo blew and it caused a few other engine problems. I had an aero td04 (with JSP tune) to replace the gt17 with, and after a lot of time spent waiting, my mechanic wasn't willing to custom fit the thing on my car. So, back to the gt17. I'll probably get a regular td04 and do it myself sometime in the future. Seems pretty straightforward.
That sucks. I don't know a whole lot about much more than minor work on cars either, but I figure I should learn sometime
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:50 PM   #8
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In preparation for tackling this job, I was checking out Dmitry's website, and he bought a new manifold gasket for this job. How necessary is that? Also, if anyone happens to know the size of the bolts that hold the wastegate on, that would be cool (if not, no biggie, I'll bring the turbo in to Ace hardware to find the bolts I need). Any other advice is appreciated too. I decided that I'm just installing the full exhaust, rear ARB, and intake this weekend, and saving the TD04 and ecu for next weekend, just to allot myself enough time (I am a slow mechanic)
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:20 PM   #9
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I would get the gasket. They can stick/tear/bend and cause a leak. Boo.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:48 PM   #10
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Thanks Palmer. This one? Doesn't look like the one dmitry has pictured, but I think it's right.

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartD...spx?id=9113937

I guess I need a new turbo stay, too. Eeuroparts doesn't have it though. Where did others get it?

Thanks!
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:54 PM   #11
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You don't need the stay.


Looks like the right gasket.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:56 PM   #12
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Order completed. Also got the new button for the key fob (mine is in terrible shape) and a few oil filters to bring my order up to $50 for FREE SHIPPING! (why do they have to do this to me? I can't live with paying 8 bucks for shipping a 10 dollar order so i have to spend $30 more than I intended).

Full stainless Exhaust, GS intake, GS rear ARB, to go on this weekend. TD04, stage 3 JZW tune, and red DIC to go on next weekend w/oil change. I'm pumped
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:14 PM   #13
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when i had a td04, JZW helped me reliably get 26psi out of it with the right tune and w/m injection. 24psi is pushing it already though if you're not helping it out with some w/m imo. and btw, we did use some green giants for that setup...i still have the greens in the car as a matter of fact. they'll be coming out soon and the 60lb deka's going in, after a coupel hundred more miles of break-in.

i still have that td04 and the p/p exhaust mani sitting around for anyone interested. the big cobra pipe is gone however.

Last edited by wasaaabi; 10-17-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:33 AM   #14
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Update with pics Zach?
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:37 AM   #15
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fuel injector calculators are fucking worthless

at full boost (call it 21psi), you are actually running ~64.5psi/4.4 bar of fuel pressure. that is because fuel pressure rises at a 1:1 rate, to boost.

the injector calculators you see are not really even close to correct, IMO.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:04 AM   #16
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Well, I wish I had a positive update to make! I tore everything apart on Saturday, all lines/bolts were loose, but the turbo wouldn't drop down like in dmitry's guide. I was on a serious crunch for time so I had to put everything back together. Only difference is I'm running without an MBC now. So not exciting lol. I'll go at it again in spring when I'm changing oil again and have enough time.

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Update with pics Zach?

So they probably just want to sell me injectors then, huh? So the fuel pressure is at about 43 psi stock, no boost, right?

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fuel injector calculators are fucking worthless

at full boost (call it 21psi), you are actually running ~64.5psi/4.4 bar of fuel pressure. that is because fuel pressure rises at a 1:1 rate, to boost.

the injector calculators you see are not really even close to correct, IMO.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:15 AM   #17
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mine...

I have some Deplhi/Lucas injectors. Think 850cc.
On them it`s written "01D129B"
Any1 can give me some more details/feed-back from previous usage?
Thanks!
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:32 AM   #18
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bump!

any help on my issue with the injectors?
I really don`t know what is the flow capacity...
some sites says 750cc, other 830cc or 850cc.
Maybe someone around used them and know for sure.
Many thanks!
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:27 AM   #19
 
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any help on my issue with the injectors?
I really don`t know what is the flow capacity...
some sites says 750cc, other 830cc or 850cc.
Maybe someone around used them and know for sure.
Many thanks!
That's a max flow rating based on a specified pressure. You need the latter number to be sure.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:10 AM   #20
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?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
That's a max flow rating based on a specified pressure. You need the latter number to be sure.
What would be the latter number?
On them it is written "01D129B"
I put them on a tool that pumped at 3.5 pressure fuel for 1 minute, at different RPM.
These were the quantities:
800 RPM....some 700ml
2.500 RPM...some 830 ml
3.500 RPM...some 1.130ml
At continuous spray for 20 seconds, the level went way over the scale...think 2.000 ml
Same in revving from 800 RPM to 6.600 RPM and down, for 1 minute, the level went way over the scale...think 2.000 ml.
Be [email protected] if I know how much this injectors flow
Any help wellcomed!
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