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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 07-27-2009, 12:41 AM   #1
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Forged pistons

what forged pistons should I use for an upgraded Viggen?

- Wossner, coated - low friction skirt coating, or

- JE Forged pistons, coated with:
Tuff Skirt (TS) Tuff Skirt is a JE Pistons' trademark coating that is a lubricating, anti-friction / anti-wear coating applied to the piston skirt only. Unlike our standard Skirt Coating, Tuff Skirt will not wear and is designed to withstand many different types of endurance applications, similar to those commonly found in NASCAR. Buildup is .0005" per surface and finished diameter of skirt should include the coating buildup.

Thermal Barrier Crown (CC) The thermal barrier crown coating is applied to the top of the piston and is designed to reflect heat into the combustion chamber, thereby increasing exhaust gas velocity and greatly improving scavenging potential. The .0015" thick coating can also assist in extending piston life by decreasing the rate of thermal transfer.

BTW, is there any relevant difference between the pistons for B205 and B235? Because I think they are the same dimension...

Please advise...your input (and personal experience) will be very appreciated.
Thanks.
Lucian
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:22 AM   #2
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A friend of mine has wossner pistons (coated) in his viggen. He is very happy with them.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:05 AM   #3
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Are your stock pistons shot? If not what is the purpose of upgrading them. I was thinking of upgrading my pistons for my modded 9-3 as I had read the stock pistons can melt when you get close to 300whp. After reading other posts regarding forged pistons and oil consumption I decided against them (I use zero oil at the moment).

I believe it was Vigge on this forum or SC stating the stock pistons have done very well on his buddies high HP saab. Maybe he will chime in.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:11 AM   #4
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T7 pistons are less reliable than T5 pistons, and if one little thing in the T7 management goes, the piston is the first to suffer.
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:13 AM   #5
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i've got JE pistons in my built b204. havnt run that motor yet, but i was very impressed with the general quality.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:15 AM   #6
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Thanks Tweek, good to know. I am sure the JE pistons are of excellent quality, it just seemed the majority of people running them were burning a lot of oil. I think JZW was burning something like 1 liter per 1000 miles. I suppose when you are running that kind of power maybe its normal.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:03 AM   #7
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my stocks fried :)

Well, like the subject says, I just fried my stock pistons at some 280 HP. So I am in for a buy. Already ordered a set of JE's from Nick T. But I want to double check the available options.
Regarding the oil, at higher horsepower, the friction is higher, thus resulting a higher oil usage.
Also. As Nick stated on this forum, the piston rings have to be really well set and double checked...
Anymore opinions?
L.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:09 AM   #8
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out of curiosity AV dumitrascu, what oil were you running and oil change interval when your pistons fried ?
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:14 PM   #9
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out of curiosity AV dumitrascu, what oil were you running and oil change interval when your pistons fried ?
0W40 full synthetic, some 1000 km before changed. I cannot blame the oil. Just my 2 cents, though!
Lucian (from over the Ocean)
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #10
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Very highly doubt it was the oil, just curious.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:29 PM   #11
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0W40 full synthetic, some 1000 km before changed. I cannot blame the oil. Just my 2 cents, though!
Lucian (from over the Ocean)
not the first engine to fry using 0w-40....and won't be the last.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:33 PM   #12
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not the first engine to fry using 0w-40....and won't be the last.
Yeah, I was using 0w-40 up until the last oil change when it poured out like water...I'm never going back to that.
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Which is fine. Because another guy got hit by a deer. Yes, a deer ran into a man.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #13
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Any proof that mobil 0w40 destroyed the engine? Lots of UOA to show mobil 0w40 is a great oil. It is a factory fill for Porsche 911 turbo... I don't use the oil myself as I get better oil for cheaper but I highly doubt the oil destroyed the engine.

As for it pouring out like water, was this when hot or cold. Being a 0 wt you want itnto be as thin as possible when at ambient temps, less cold start wear. All oils pour out like water, even the 20w50 in my mgb

Last edited by Saab9-3se; 07-27-2009 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:34 PM   #14
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This was fairly warm, but oil needs some viscosity to provide proper lubrication.

I'm not sure there is any conclusive evidence the oil destroyed the engines but there's quite the correlation between blown engines and mobil 1 0w-40. I know of two or three including that one jak built a couple years ago from the internet alone. I'm sure others with more shop experience will chime in. But like I said, I swore by it until i saw how thin it got from heat degradation.
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Which is fine. Because another guy got hit by a deer. Yes, a deer ran into a man.
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:49 PM   #15
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What was your oil pressure gauge reading when you ran the oil?
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:12 PM   #16
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Unsure, I don't have a gauge.
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Which is fine. Because another guy got hit by a deer. Yes, a deer ran into a man.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:33 AM   #17
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Unsure, I don't have a gauge.
So you're basing the quality of the oil by how it looks visually when it comes out, no UOA, no oil pressure readings etc.... I wouldnt bash an oil when there is lots of documentation to say its a great oil

Anyways, sorry to the OP for getting off topic, I wont be discussing oil in this thread anymore.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:25 AM   #18
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what, then?

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Yeah, I was using 0w-40 up until the last oil change when it poured out like water...I'm never going back to that.
so what are you using now, better than Mobil 1 0W-40?
or this is off-topic?
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:31 AM   #19
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I have run Mobil 5-30 7500 since build in my Viggen. Rev limiter has been 7200 and power 400-500 for most of its life. The oil is not the problem.

In the racecar it ets 10-40 castrol GTX and the bearings have looked nice every time we pull it apart. We have steady state mapped it at 7000rpm on the dyno along with some high rpm 7k+ lifter durability for minutes.

Piston ring break-in is tricky if the bore is not prepped right. You can glaze the rings or bore and then it is a problem. I will write a long version on trolltuner.

Pistons should not have been a problem at 280hp with a stock turbo.
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2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 E85
Viggen 439whp / 447tq 12.43 @114 on Gt2871.64, (Now 511whp Gt3076)
Nordic E85 9-3 SS Aero 320hp / 350ftlbs
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:59 AM   #20
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I have run Mobil 5-30 7500 since build in my Viggen. Rev limiter has been 7200 and power 400-500 for most of its life. The oil is not the problem.

In the racecar it ets 10-40 castrol GTX and the bearings have looked nice every time we pull it apart. We have steady state mapped it at 7000rpm on the dyno along with some high rpm 7k+ lifter durability for minutes.

Piston ring break-in is tricky if the bore is not prepped right. You can glaze the rings or bore and then it is a problem. I will write a long version on trolltuner.

Pistons should not have been a problem at 280hp with a stock turbo.
Thanks Nick, always enjoy hearing about tear downs as they truly show how an engine is holding up.

As per what oil i am using. Well, the best oil analysis I had was with Motul 5w40 (posted at bobistheoilguy.com) although the Redline 0w40 I ran during the winter months held up very well also. Currently I am running Redline 10w40 and will do an analysis on it in a month or so.

It all depends on what you are looking for in a oil. Do you want long oil change intervals, cheapest with most protection etc. Then you can decide on what oil to use.
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