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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-30-2009, 03:19 PM   #1
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Forged pistons and using oil

I have heard a lot of people saying they have higher oil consumption after they changed to forged pistons in saab engines.
My Viggen uses about 1 qt every 600 miles. There is no sign of oil burning except I need to add a qt every other fill up. You can see no smoking when following and no smoke at startup.
The compression is perfect at 170 all the way around and a leakdown test put it in the top 10 percent of cars the shop had ever tested.
The crank vent system works perfectly and there is no blowby. (my block is from a 2004 9-5 so it has the latest system)
I am not too concerned since I work on a lot of Porsche 911's and this type of oil condsumption is considered normal.
I do have an extra set of rings, should I bother to put them in hoping for better oil consumption?
Any others with forged pistons have this kind of results.
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:18 PM   #2
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:28 PM   #3
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My car uses a little bit, probably about 1qt per 800 miles or so. I know Eric's car also uses oil, but he just put in new pistons and rings. Dallas's car seems to be about 1 qt per 1k and his was built by the "pros" at Saab.

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Old 06-30-2009, 05:36 PM   #4
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Dallas's car seems to be about 1 qt per 1k and his was built by the "pros" at Saab.

John


That must have been cheap. You weren't joking about what you had said.
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Old 06-30-2009, 06:27 PM   #5
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wow thats just another reason i am swapping to a b234 instead of forged pistons. oil consumption like that sucks for a dd
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:18 PM   #6
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a little off topic but what can the stock 234 handle for power??
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:31 AM   #7
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a little off topic but what can the stock 234 handle for power??
450+ bhp.
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Old 07-01-2009, 06:57 AM   #8
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I gave up checking the oil level in my Viggen a long time ago. Always just right. It sees piston speed i the 4250 fpm ([email protected]) my drag car sees the same piston speed but it is at 8300 rpm with the shorter stroke of the 2.0.

It is all in the ring gap and the bore finish. If fitted too loose then for sure it will eat, too tight and well thats bad too. Also might look at the crank vent system. We know that some of those intermediate "fixes" were not so good in the consumption area.
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2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 E85
Viggen 439whp / 447tq 12.43 @114 on Gt2871.64, (Now 511whp Gt3076)
Nordic E85 9-3 SS Aero 320hp / 350ftlbs
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:59 AM   #9
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I guess its good to know some people have had good luck with forged pistons and oil consumption. I know my race car is set up on the lose side, I went at about .018" top ring gap. My machine shop set it up at .016" and I had the ends touch each other and ruin the spring in the top compression ring.

So, I think you are right, a good professional cross-hatch hone and the ring gap set up correctly for the power level is crucial. I do know that some people have ordered stock rings for the stock pistons and have checked the top ring gap at .023" before they did anything and that might be why there is some oil consumption. My rings checked in at .017" from Je and I just tweeked them ever so slightly, I also had one of the 3 measure .014"

If I had not checked the rings and just put in my Je pistons, I would have had trouble fo shooo...

John
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:29 PM   #10
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Im running Wossner pistons and have not had much if any oil loss. Im not tracking my car so im not sure thats the issue. Its a 9k b234 gt3071
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:42 PM   #11
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After Melting Down Two Sets of JE Pistons And there SHIT rings they Supplied. 50th's Of an Inch too Small With the First set of pistons they Sent! And then the Hassle of trying to get them to Fix THIER Mistake. How hard was it For them Just to Send Me the Right Size? TWO MONTHS? And Yahh Oil Consumption Even with the right Rings. Basically The Stock Pistons Work Great. There Cheep To Relace. They Fit and Work. This was 10 years ago But I will Never Buy a JE piston Again. I See no improvement over Stock. Only Shortcomings From that Particular Aftermarket Experience.
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:48 PM   #12
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After Melting Down Two Sets of JE Pistons And there SHIT rings they Supplied.
User error. That's the beauty of checking ring gaps when building your motor. I had one primary compression ring at .025. Had to order a new set, took 3 days to come, which came from Canada. If they were too small... then why didn't you file them down to be the correct size? I had to file down one primary compression and one secondary. Just triple check to make sure your measuring gaps correctly before you start filing things down.

As for my JE's. I do not believe I am using oil internally. Most of my oil is coming out of a leaking pan, ugh! About a quart every 500 miles is seeping out.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:57 PM   #13
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:08 PM   #14
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User error. That's the beauty of checking ring gaps when building your motor. I had one primary compression ring at .025. Had to order a new set, took 3 days to come, which came from Canada. If they were too small... then why didn't you file them down to be the correct size? I had to file down one primary compression and one secondary. Just triple check to make sure your measuring gaps correctly before you start filing things down.

As for my JE's. I do not believe I am using oil internally. Most of my oil is coming out of a leaking pan, ugh! About a quart every 500 miles is seeping out.
No Not User Error Just a Bad timing Computer. The rings were 50's UNDER not over. I Couldn't ADD RING material. For What Parts Cost, You Should get what you Pay for and not the Runaround with a BIG guy Namebrand that I Haven't Found to Be any Better than Stock.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:55 AM   #15
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50TH's Of an Inch Twoo smalL cAn Go both Ways when Interpreted My Friend. My mISTaKe, I Gues$. FacT of the Matter is Saab + JE = SMALl MARKET. We'Re lucky We even havE a Chance to get Aftermarket PistOns. Why do You Base JE's pistoN quality on Inproper Ring gapS? BTW were Not ReaLy going off Topic here. Inproper Ring gapS WILL Lead to a lot of Oil Consumption if the Gaps are Too Large like both Harvey and MYselF have experienceD. MTAERO, did You (or youRe buildeR) check the Ring End GapS?

It was fun to type like that.

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Old 07-02-2009, 06:08 AM   #16
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The advantage of JE pistons is the strength when you start making power above 450bhp with t5 cars and they definetely are much better than the stock t7 pistons that crack just above 300bhp.

I am on the other side, I have been amazed at what kind of abuse the je forged pistons can take My set-up is a little lose and I have always been told that when you buy forged pistons for high hp applications, you get them with the rings a little tight so you can file them to your spec for your application.

THey are all different, a ring gap for 300bhp is not the same as for 500bhp and not the same for circle track or nitrous, etc. The more power you make, the larger you want the end gap. My machine shop set my end gap at .016" the first go round and with my gt3071wg, I had contact of the ring ends and this caused the failure of the ring.

John
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:29 AM   #17
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I have been amazed at what kind of abuse the je forged pistons can take
Have during the past few years bee more and more amazed what kind of abuse the standard T5 bottom among pistons can take based on my good friends car. Currently it makes around 620bhp/650Nm and is reqularly reved to 8k RPM. Few weeks ago it trapped 183.3 on standing mile.
Test runs are calculated in hundreds so its seems durable even with that output and is driven in daily use summer/winter.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:21 AM   #18
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Have during the past few years bee more and more amazed what kind of abuse the standard T5 bottom among pistons can take based on my good friends car. Currently it makes around 620bhp/650Nm and is reqularly reved to 8k RPM. Few weeks ago it trapped 183.3 on standing mile.
Test runs are calculated in hundreds so its seems durable even with that output and is driven in daily use summer/winter.
Any headwork on that? Super 40? That's amazing, but I'm still nervous just bringing my tach to my 6.5k rev limit.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:44 AM   #19
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Don't be a wussy The stock limit is 6400! People have been running 7k for years with t5 heads,

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Old 07-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #20
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Have during the past few years bee more and more amazed what kind of abuse the standard T5 bottom among pistons can take based on my good friends car. Currently it makes around 620bhp/650Nm and is reqularly reved to 8k RPM. Few weeks ago it trapped 183.3 on standing mile.
Test runs are calculated in hundreds so its seems durable even with that output and is driven in daily use summer/winter.
I agree the stock ones are pretty damn good, but I did have one break on my after a year of hard abuse. I think you were telling me about the stock ones colapsing at about 520bhp. I like the forged ones for big power and any t7 car planning on going above stg3.

John
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