Saab Link Forums banner

NGK Plugs

4K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  JZW 
#1 ·
What is the difference between the NGK-BCPR7ES and the NGK-BCPR7ES-11?


Pete ordered plugs from Eeuro and the NGK-BCPR7ES are what they shipped him.
 
#12 ·
Which ones did you use? The recommended plug for the viggen is NOT the BCPR7ES. They will work but the recommended plug is the PFR7H10

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartDetail.aspx?id=PFR7H10

Why people put the cheaper plug in is beyond me. Why buy the most expensive top of the line performance model (viggen) and cheap out on the plugs?
 
#8 ·
This is a typical spark-plug code: BCPR6ES-11

The feild breakdown is like this.
Feild 1 - 'B'
Feild 2 - 'CPR'
Feild 3 - '6'
Feild 4 - 'E'
Feild 5 - 'S'
Feild 6 - '11'

Feild 1: Thread diameter;
A=18mm
B=14mm
C=10mm
D=12mm

Feild 2: Construction;
C=hex size 5/8
K=hex size 5/8 with projected tip (ISO)
M=compact size
P=protected insulator
R=resistor
SD=surfacedischarge for rotary engines
U=semi-surface discharge
Z=inductive suppressor

Feild 3: Heat Range;
2=Hot ~ 10=cold

Feild 4: Thread reach;
E=19mm
F=tapered
H=12.7mm(1.5")
L=11.2mm(7/16")

Feild 5: Firing end;
A,B=Special design
C=Special ground electode
G=racing
GV=racing use V type
H=half thread
K=2 ground electrodes
L=half heat range
LM=lawn mower
M=2 ground electodes for rotary
N= Special ground electrode
P=platinum tip
Q=4 ground electrodes
R=delta ground electode
S=standard 2.6mm ceter electrode
T=3 ground electrode
V=fine wire centre electrode gold palladium
VX=platinum tip (high performance)
w=tungsten electrode
X=booster gap
Y=V-groove center electrode

Feild 6 Numbers after the dash;
8=0.8mm plug gap
9=0.9mm gap
10=1.0mm gap
11=1.1mm gap
THERE IS NO 12..
13=1.3mm gap
14=1.4mm gap
15=1.5mm gap
20=2.0mm gap
Also:
http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=173274
 
#14 ·
okay, someone fill in my ignorance...is there any particular reason why us saabers are "stuck" on ngk? Is there anything special about them that makes the other brands "not applicable"? I ran Denso's in my old prelude and they ran great. and what of these pulse-star plugs i'm seeing pop up in magazines? I've seen at least two before and after dynos and they look pretty convincing...or is just another turbonator? Some break down the science for me, please....:confused:
 
#21 ·
I think many people such as Vigge have found the heat range isnt what reduces the knock in traditional plug heat range sense but instead the "8" range plugs actually reduce knock sensitivity within Trionics set parameter's. Giving the indication that knock was caused by too hot a plug.
Does this have an ill side side effect? Some will argue so.
 
#22 ·
That may be true to some degree, but having the right heat range plug for you're set-up will reduce knock, period.

If you run 6's in a stage 3 they will be way too hot and be prone to more detonation and have less boost. Do the 7's also give less knock detection that the ecu can see?

Even if that is true to some degree, if a set-up needs a colder plug, the set-up needs a colder plug and running 6's that are too hot or 7's that are too hot is just asking for trouble.

There is a right heat-range for each tune and the only way to know is to read you're plugs. My car runs right on the edge with 8's, I have a set of 9's on order now. If that shows less knock will people claim its the plug and not because its the right heat range?

The bottom line is there is a proper heat range for each car and its tune.

Are you saying you would put back in 7's in a car running a tune that makes them run too hot? Its a very simple principle, the more power you make and the more cylinder pressure there is and the hotter the combustion chamber gets, the colder the plug heat range needs to be.

John
 
#25 ·
That may be true to some degree, but having the right heat range plug for you're set-up will reduce knock, period.

If you run 6's in a stage 3 they will be way too hot and be prone to more detonation and have less boost. Do the 7's also give less knock detection that the ecu can see?

Even if that is true to some degree, if a set-up needs a colder plug, the set-up needs a colder plug and running 6's that are too hot or 7's that are too hot is just asking for trouble.

There is a right heat-range for each tune and the only way to know is to read you're plugs. My car runs right on the edge with 8's, I have a set of 9's on order now. If that shows less knock will people claim its the plug and not because its the right heat range?

The bottom line is there is a proper heat range for each car and its tune.

Are you saying you would put back in 7's in a car running a tune that makes them run too hot? Its a very simple principle, the more power you make and the more cylinder pressure there is and the hotter the combustion chamber gets, the colder the plug heat range needs to be.

John
Sorry I think you have misunderstood what im saying. I will rephrase it.
If you have a knock problem that is not related to plugs such as carboned up chambers, blowby/oil consumption and changing from 7's to 8's alleviates this problem with less knocks shown on Tech2 etc and increased power its possible that the amount of knock that is taken place has NOT reduced at all, only not sensativity and Trionics follow on of detection and thus reducing ign and boost.
Does that make more sense?
 
#26 ·
Saabkid is right to some degree, 7's are good to about 350bhp or
so. The catch is you can have a tune where the 7's are fine or you can have a tune where 7's are running too hot. It all depends on the a/f, the boost level, etc.

The best way to know is buy a new set of 7's, put them in you're car, do a few wide open pulls and then pull over and take one out and read the plug, the heat range is found on the ground strap and should be right in the middle of the ground strap. If its close to the base ring where its welded on, its reading hot, if its over the electroid, its reading cold.

Do a google search for reading plugs, there is tons of information on this out there and it does not just apply to saabs, reading plugs has been around for a long time and any good drag racer will be reading his plugs after each run and determining if the a/f is good, detonation is occuring, heat range is correct. You can get a lot of information from the plugs without ever looking at one single gage.

You could bring me you're car and I could tell you if its running lean, rich, detonating, has coolant leaking through the head-gasket, etc.

The best thing to do is read up on how to read plugs, buy a new set and then do some pulls and read you're plugs.

That all being said, the 7's are generally fine to about 350bhp, but if its a stage 4, I would say 8's are needed as most stage 4's push the stock turbo to the very limits and that is when the heat gets over the edge and the 8's would be a little safer.

Now a stage 5 with larger turbo that is not being pushed to the absolute limit might still be ok on 7's. The only way to know is to read you're plugs:cool:

John
 
#27 ·
Have to agree with John in reagrds to tunes and "specific" cars as all cars are different, and some can only get crap 91. I ran 7's in my viggen for years and had a tad bit of knock just when I would accelerate to WOT. I mean it was just a little bit that would not screw with my A\F ratio. I was told/read that this is somewhat normal in regards to tuned T7's, especialy viggens by a few tuners. But it kind of drove me crazy. So I checked and rechecked plugs and then bought 8's and now my car is happy as hell. No more pinging at all. And I know some say that you only need to run these 8's when you reach a certain HP. Yes this is true, but my car would be lucky to see 270whp and it likes the 8's.
 
#30 ·
Would not hurt to have some 8's around, if you take a picture of the end of the plug, the base ring and ground strap, I can read them for you.

Like this, you can see the heat mark on my 8's. The mark is toward the end over the electroid, a hair cold, but it was low boost, real rich, in the 10's and all that. That mark moved when I put the hammer down:cool: You can see the base ring has a nice black soot coating, that is rich. Light brown color, lean, right on the edge, light black soot, just about right, caked on soot, rich, but safe. A greenish hue can mean detonation or a head gasket leak if the coolant is green. I run clear mercedes benze for that reason.

John

http://saablink.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2003&d=1200254059
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top