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Montana Road race, Saab 9k king!

6K views 73 replies 25 participants last post by  dunkindetail 
#1 · (Edited)
Eric and I went up to Lewistown Montana to the Porshe club educational road racing event and the course was a blast to drive.

I was blown away by Mtaero or Gary Wolf's 9k road race car! It was the fastest car there at the track and was beating up on all kinds of Porshe's, a few 911's, 968's, one Lotus, one Ferrari, was not winding in the power band much, but the car was on rails and extremely fast and would pull to 165mph down the back straight just at the rev limit in 5th gear, 6800rpm and 4:45 final drive from v6 na ng900.

The car had a 18t, lsd, suspension work, light, 2400lb and I had tuned it on the road for a while with the 18t.

That car is amazing, the power is instant with that 4:45 final drive, you can start out from a dig in second gear and the car has a different power band, it pulls from 3500-6500rpm all day long and has instant response anytime you get on the gas and start banging through gears.

I was very impressed and it actually scared me a little to ride in the passenger seat as we banged through the S's at 120mph and opened it up to 150+ on the back straight. I never knew a 9k could corner like it did and the car would not body roll at all and the car was a beast everywhere on the track. I had a blast and now am back to wanting to build a 9k instead of a ng900.

A Porshe 911 full on race car showed up Sunday and for the fist time Gary had someone to contest his Saab and they started going at it. I watched as Gary held off this 911 and the racing was very tight and the cars were flying around the track. I got my camera out as they passed me in the pits and then saw gary move over and signal for the 911 to take the lead, Gary jumped right back in on the 911's tail and it was one, they went through the lower corner of the course and back up through the S's with Gary right on his tail, the 911 must have gotten rattled and the next thing we know the Porshe is sliding side-ways at 120mph out of the S's and then goes off in the grass, Gary smiles as he passes and its on down the track for the Saab...

Saab 9k road race car 1, Porshe 911 race car, 0. A rematch has been slotted for the spring and it made us Saab owners feel pretty good knowing a 3k car with a stock motor and 18t, a little tune with green giants and a lsd combined with a 4:45 final drive could run so well...

My car did ok with new roll bar installed, much stiffer now, but no comparison to Gary's light 9k in the corners, I could barely pull on him in the straights I bet. It rained most of the first day and I was spinning in second, third, fourth.

We did some brake thresh-hold testing in the rain and my car locked up all 4 tires in the rain even with abs. I did better my second try.

I really enjoyed the road racing compared to drag racing and think I will build a 9k light road race car now:cool:

Thanks to Gary Wolf for all the great Montana hospitality! Pics to come!

A few pics and a crappy video that does not do the cars justice is at post #16, the white porsche with #73 is the one Gary was racing with.


John
 
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#3 ·
yes, as i have said before, in light of having raced in lemons, i'm probably never going to drag race again. drag racing vs track racing is like giving yourself a reach around vs orgy with every super model on the planet. theres no comparison
 
#8 ·
That is a great running car, its light and very fast with that gear-box! I have an aero too and want to do a 18T. I will contacting you soon to do the upgrade.

The engine and turbo ran very smooth and made great power, the turbo seemed to be running awesome!

John
 
#16 ·
Pics and video link

He took off the sunroof and put in aluminum, bumpers are aluminum skirts, inner door panels and interior, seats, carpet, padding, rear window motors, ac gone, he has small battery, he had the window wipers out at one time and heater core too, but that was back in, he had it to 2350 # at one time.

Here are some pictures and a video link. The video does not do the cars justice, the white porshe #73 was the one Gary ended up playing with.

John
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Saab-9k-road-racing-in_184483.htm
 

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#18 ·
He runs a 4:45 final drive from a v-6 ng900 with a LSD and standard 9k gears after that in his gearbox. He can start out from a stop in second gear. The very high final drive puts less load on the gearbox.

Its very close to the quaife 6 speed that people use to race in gearing and the power is quick with the gears being so short, its like a sti or something, the turbo never over boost because by the time its spooling up the rpm is passing 4500-5k and you do not get that boost and or torque spike, it just comes on hard at 22psi and holds to 6500rpm.

The LSD combined with short final drive makes a huge difference. Normal 9k final drive is 3.82, ng900 is 3.82, 93 is 4.05 with shorter 1.18 third gear and the viggen is 4.05 with shorter 1.18 third gear, 9k and mg900 both have a 1.12 third gear.

I was very impressed and plan to build one of these gear boxes. With the gear-box and weight reduction, a 18-19t is all the power you need:cool:

John
 
#22 ·
lemons car probably weighed less than that as a guess. no glass, no hatch, no interior, single corbeau seat. but it did have a cage.

that car was ridiculously fast, and on only 5lbs of boost from a T25. and it was great to be able to floor it in 1st and have traction, and still accelerate like a bat out of hell. i can only imagine what it's like with an 18t.
 
#23 ·
Yea, he loves the tcs because he says he does not like the increased spring feel of a cable pedal that is harder to push the farther you go on the throttle.

He loves the feel of a fly by wire tb.

I was very impressed by what a light 9k can do. Like Vigge said, when you do the math 300whp 2400# car is just as fast in the straights as a 500bhp car with 3000#

My car feels faster in the straights, but once you get them on the track, its a different story. We did not get to run them together, but the only place I felt faster was in the boost up the hills on the straights...

John
 
#24 ·
Gary is definantly a great driver, been looking at pics of his 9k aero for probably 10 yrs now. I think it was in 1999 or 2000 I purchased my brakes from him for my spg, I think he was getting out of doing hill climbs or something like that. Anyways, there really is no comparison 1/4mi vs roadcoarse. It's just it costs a LOT more to play at a roadcoarse for a day vs a evening at a dragstrip.

Definantly go with a 9000 or even a 9-5, both seem to be the best saab platforms for power & more importantly handling!
 
#25 ·
Definantly go with a 9000 or even a 9-5, both seem to be the best saab platforms for power & more importantly handling!
Very surprising to hear someone say a 9k is one of the best handling platforms. Solid rear axle, ugh! My 9k, although not properly setup/worn suspension parts but does have good tires on it (falken 615's), still handles like a boat. Long sweepers are alright, but getting the car to turn in takes quite the effort.

I cant wait to start setting up my car.. You've got my hopes up!

John, you know what springs/shocks hes running?
 
#26 ·
I would not say its a good platform by other car standards and even Gary talked about all the issues with the 9k, he knows them all and can tell you all the reasons why the 9k is not ideal for racing, but he still manages to get the car to perform pretty darn good.

There is a big difference in how a 9k handles once you replace all the suspension bushings and lower the car and put on good dampers and put on big sway bars and decent tires and the top strut brace, etc.

My aero has all that and its night and day to my roomates cse with stock set-up.

Abbottracing had the best success with the 9k platform during their racing days. It was the most successful racing platform they had.

Gary has lowered stock aero springs, koni shocks, rear sas sway bar with double mounting plates welded into the back, decent tires, light weight, upper strut brace, poly wishbones up front, LSD, new bushings all over the car and he is a good driver!

He says with better racing slicks, he can get the car to do much better than it already was, which would be amazing to me. I was blown away at how hard you can slam a 9k into a corner and have it stick and come out. I had never pushed my cars that hard and did not even know it was possible.

John
 
#27 ·
Ever been to an auto-x event? :cool:

Imagine a 1900# Civic (EG) hatch with 250whp, semi-properly setup w/ slicks STOCK brakes (rear converted to discs) riding with a national champ... now that's scary (fun) :)

My car is lowered, but eh, I think its a completely wrong setup. Idk about the springs (they're red), but the shocks are KYB.. what a joke. KYB's are probably softer than the stockers.
 
#31 ·
Gary also told me he did very well in auto-cross with that 9k and he set the best time in many of the events, somehow beating sti's, hondas and the like.

He is a very good driver and that goes a long way. I was impressed at how he controlled over-steer with throttle modulation:cool:

John
 
#38 ·
That is it, Gary is a great guy and has been working on that aero for over 10 years and he is a driving instructor and a very good driver... The instant response of that gear-box combined with the 18t, light weight makes a great combo.

John
 
#39 ·
What I meant was if you want to take a saab to the track, the 9-5 & 9000 are 2 great choices. The 9-3ss is a better chassis however it's quite a bit more costly but from what I have seen worth the cost if a saab is what you want for track stuff. The 9000 definantly has issues just like every other saab seems to but they can be had for not a lot of money these days. I am definantly a C900 fan & it's not very difficult to get those old cars to handle extremely well. It's just that it's just about impossible to get the trans to last for any extended period of time.

But if a track car is what you want & you plan on getting into it pretty seriously, FWD is not the way to go. But a properly setup FWD car with a capable driver can definantly surprise a lot of other cars/drivers. Setting up a FWD car for oversteer is usually the preffered way of going around turns, helps negate the problems with FWD. Many racers with corvairs & yenko stingers set their cars up this way, such a trip to watch them go through turns. Personally, I am a total chicked shit thus I do not put my SPG in the oversteer situations. The dam airflow bumpers are just to dam expensive & equally hard to find :(
 
#40 ·
Yea, I understand what you are saying and I know the fwd saab has its draw backs, but I am a die-hard saab guy and love the 9k and have had a few classic saabs, ng900, and now have 3 9k's and one ng900.

After seeing what is possible in a light 9k with a short gear-box, I am sold on building one for myself. I know its not the best platform and it will always have its shortcommings, but being able to give many cars a run for their money in the only saab at the track is appealing to me.

The fact I can tune them, work on them, build them and have lots of extra parts and all the tools and know how makes it even more appealing.

I don't plan to win a championship with one, but would like to go out and as you put it, surprize quite a few people with a light well geared, well handling saab 9k.

John
 
#41 ·
I kind of know where you're coming from here John. A huge portion of my reason for owning a Saab and wanting to make it a very fast street car is the surprise factor I put on everyone who witnesses my car, and the very small number of people who modify these things. When I go out to the strip on weekends, I am the only Saab 9k. I'll see the occasional kid driving a 9-3ss, and that's about it. You're right, its not going to win any awards or championships, but it will be the car that just about everyone will remember.
 
#42 ·
yup.... that's why I messed with my C900 to make it work quite well at a track. I have taken my viggen a few times & for being what it is the car doesn't do to bad. I remember one of my instructors telling me "you know.... technically this is the worst handling car out here today. Tall, narrow FWD sedan..... MAN I sure would be pissed if I was driving that 911 (we were riding his bumper waiting on a waive by) & was passed by a sedan.

It is fun being the only one out there & it surprises me how many people will come to chat & state I hade one of these back in the 80's.

That being said if you do want to get into roadcoarse stuff your best way to go fast is to NOT take a car with TONS of power. Go buy a 9k (or whatever you want) & take it to the track stock. The limits of the car are so much lower & you will not rely on the power to get you around the track. Then after a few schools start modding the thing.
 
#43 ·
I don't like that idea:cool: I want to make Gary's car:cool: 4:45 final drive, lsd, lowered, koni's sas rear sway bar, new bushings and a 18-19t with one of my tunes... That is a mean machine.

I got to drive it a few times and I loved the instant power of the 18t combined with the tranny and light weight... I have the die-grinder on stan-by right now:cool:

I am going to gut the ever livin hell out of the cse I got cheap and might even take out the heater core, window motors, just about everything I can think of, sun-roof, rear glass for bracing, etc...

The wheels are spinning in my head... Can 2200# be acheived?

John
 
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