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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 08-02-2008, 11:36 AM   #1
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starting t5suite tuning

who here does their own tunes?
does anyone use a canusb or just take the ecu out everytime to tune?

i just got a data logging program and a wideband so i want to start tuning, but i dont want to take the ecu out everytime. i saw where some people just use the can port thats already on our cars the tune them so you dont have to take the ecu out everytime you want to make a change. does anyone know all the parts that are needed to do this?
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:14 PM   #2
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Hmm good question, I haven't started T5ing yet, but it'd be nice if you can road tune. Increase and decrease parameters on the fly via laptop.

***Would also really like to know the answer to this question.***
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:30 PM   #3
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From what I know, the canbus allows you to see what the fuel trims are doing so that you get a better idea of how much to change the fuel in between flashes, but I don't think they have the ability to actually re-flash the ecu while the car is running or tune on the fly.

They just can have the tuning pc in the car with them and stop and hook up and flash there, basically very similar to tuning it on the desk-top, its just that they have the computer in the car instead of in the house.

If you have one screw in the cover and the glove-box out, it only takes about one minute to unplug it, carry it to the desk-top pc and flash it again.

If they do get it working where you could make on the fly flashes on the road or with the car running, now that would be a big step forward. Right now its not really much different, its just that you take the computer to the car to flash instead of taking the ecu to the computer to flash.

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Old 08-02-2008, 03:38 PM   #4
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well i didnt mean on the fly, just leaving a cord from the ecu sticking out in the dash where i could plug the laptop in and tune the car when its off. i dont want to carry the whole harness around with me all the time.
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:51 PM   #5
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Here is what you can do... .notch the back of our ECU cover and run a 10 pin ribbon cable oout of it and then you can use a BDM in the car as you need to.
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:15 PM   #6
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I was wondering about this also... Was thinking about running a longer cable into the glove box so that i could plug in there.
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:11 PM   #7
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Thats what Drew_in_houston did one of his ECU's.
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:24 PM   #8
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YOU CAN TUNE LIVE WITH T5 SUITE.

It has been possible for like 6 weeks. The guys dont go to every site to tell everyone what they have done for everyone to use, they get the satisfaction that they have just acheived something. If you know what im saying.

What do you need to tune live.
1. Laptop with T5suite loaded on it.

2. Capabilities of flashing a T5 on bench.
Either PD interface or Pemicro unit
http://www.pemicro.com/products/prod...TOKEN=32903644

3. CANUSB
http://www.canusb.com/

What you need to do is download your bin with your BDM and open it in T5suite.

Refit ecu to car

Get your CAnUSB and hook 2 wires to CAN.h and to CAN.L. Twist these 2 wires together and plug them into their respective pins in the connector in the wiring loom in the car near engine ecu.
Start engine
Connect CANUSB to laptop.
In T5suite in the menu at top open "Realtime" menu and click on "Activate Canbus" It will now connect to the ECU while the car is running. The led on CANUSB will begin to flash.
Open the map in T5suite you wish to change such as fuel inj map.
At bottom of map is a button "read from ram" It will now load the same map out of ecu's ram. Alter it as required and then when your finished changing it click "save to ram".
Your changes are instant and are saved in volatile memory. If you clear ram or disconnect battery your lose changes. Basically you modify all your maps in ram then when car performs as desired to flash the binary that you altered by ram into the ecu on the bench. All changes you do via ram are still shown to the open bin in t5suite.

You can also view all values ie RPM, TPS,, IAT, Map in realtime and datalog it to linegraphs like logworks.

The downside is it costs money to buy a canusb and many people are too tight to spend any money for gain, they want a program that tunes live to 600 hp by itself in 10 seconds and only has to be within 10m of car to do so.
For the serious guys its not a prob, I dont think.

You need either a dyno or WB to tune, this also costs money.

Another downside is it seems hard to do. Its not read this http://members.home.nl/t5suite/Trionic%205.pdf
over and over again until you understand. Dont freak out at 161 pages and not read it and ask questions instead. Just read it until you understand. (Perhaps you will learn how to adapt a T7 APC valve as well)

Its capabilities are huge. I LIVE tuned my 9000 with 3071 in like 1 hr its so much faster than reflashing everytime.

Questions
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:31 PM   #9
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Thats tight
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:31 AM   #10
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastaero View Post
YOU CAN TUNE LIVE WITH T5 SUITE.

It has been possible for like 6 weeks. The guys dont go to every site to tell everyone what they have done for everyone to use, they get the satisfaction that they have just acheived something. If you know what im saying.

What do you need to tune live.
1. Laptop with T5suite loaded on it.

2. Capabilities of flashing a T5 on bench.
Either PD interface or Pemicro unit
http://www.pemicro.com/products/prod...TOKEN=32903644


3. CANUSB
http://www.canusb.com/

What you need to do is download your bin with your BDM and open it in T5suite.

Refit ecu to car

Get your CAnUSB and hook 2 wires to CAN.h and to CAN.L. Twist these 2 wires together and plug them into their respective pins in the connector in the wiring loom in the car near engine ecu.
Start engine
Connect CANUSB to laptop.
In T5suite in the menu at top open "Realtime" menu and click on "Activate Canbus" It will now connect to the ECU while the car is running. The led on CANUSB will begin to flash.
Open the map in T5suite you wish to change such as fuel inj map.
At bottom of map is a button "read from ram" It will now load the same map out of ecu's ram. Alter it as required and then when your finished changing it click "save to ram".
Your changes are instant and are saved in volatile memory. If you clear ram or disconnect battery your lose changes. Basically you modify all your maps in ram then when car performs as desired to flash the binary that you altered by ram into the ecu on the bench. All changes you do via ram are still shown to the open bin in t5suite.

You can also view all values ie RPM, TPS,, IAT, Map in realtime and datalog it to linegraphs like logworks.

The downside is it costs money to buy a canusb and many people are too tight to spend any money for gain, they want a program that tunes live to 600 hp by itself in 10 seconds and only has to be within 10m of car to do so.
For the serious guys its not a prob, I dont think.

You need either a dyno or WB to tune, this also costs money.

Another downside is it seems hard to do. Its not read this http://members.home.nl/t5suite/Trionic%205.pdf
over and over again until you understand. Dont freak out at 161 pages and not read it and ask questions instead. Just read it until you understand. (Perhaps you will learn how to adapt a T7 APC valve as well)

Its capabilities are huge. I LIVE tuned my 9000 with 3071 in like 1 hr its so much faster than reflashing everytime.

Questions
Very nice write-up on what things to get, except the text I highlighted in bold. I think he meant this link for a BDM interface http://www.pemicro.com/products/prod...ils&CFID=86610

Anyone interested in doing volume pricing? We can get the price down to $159 w/ 10 people.

The other link seems to be software in which we do not need, thanks to T5 Suite, am I wrong?


Paul
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:09 AM   #12
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This is great news, I could get things done much faster by being able to get everything just right in the car and then flash it one time instead of pull reflash, pull reflash.

I guess its about time to get the canbus and sw to get the realtime tuning going.

John
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by lastaero View Post

You can also view all values ie RPM, TPS,, IAT, Map in realtime and datalog it to linegraphs like logworks.
Very nice write-up! This also looks interesting with one of these, it would be awesome to have your real-times in gauge style or numeric display using logworks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/The-D...spagenameZWD1V








Quote:
Originally Posted by Guteman View Post
Very nice write-up on what things to get, except the text I highlighted in bold. I think he meant this link for a BDM interface http://www.pemicro.com/products/prod...ils&CFID=86610

Anyone interested in doing volume pricing? We can get the price down to $159 w/ 10 people.

The other link seems to be software in which we do not need, thanks to T5 Suite, am I wrong?


Paul
Count me in for 1 @$159

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Old 08-03-2008, 09:15 AM   #14
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put me down for one.
so am i right in thinking you can flash with canbus?


also could someone who knows about A/F maps look at this for me. im trying to get somemore back fire on decel. so if i make it rich it should do that right?
i only did it when my foot would be off the gas and the tps would be 5-10%

the only thing i touched was the tps i did not touch the load sensor, would i need to do that or should it just be left alone?

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Old 08-03-2008, 09:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastaero View Post
YOU CAN TUNE LIVE WITH T5 SUITE.

It has been possible for like 6 weeks. The guys dont go to every site to tell everyone what they have done for everyone to use, they get the satisfaction that they have just acheived something. If you know what im saying.

What do you need to tune live.
1. Laptop with T5suite loaded on it.

2. Capabilities of flashing a T5 on bench.
Either PD interface or Pemicro unit
http://www.pemicro.com/products/prod...TOKEN=32903644

3. CANUSB
http://www.canusb.com/

What you need to do is download your bin with your BDM and open it in T5suite.

Refit ecu to car

Get your CAnUSB and hook 2 wires to CAN.h and to CAN.L. Twist these 2 wires together and plug them into their respective pins in the connector in the wiring loom in the car near engine ecu.
Start engine
Connect CANUSB to laptop.
In T5suite in the menu at top open "Realtime" menu and click on "Activate Canbus" It will now connect to the ECU while the car is running. The led on CANUSB will begin to flash.
Open the map in T5suite you wish to change such as fuel inj map.
At bottom of map is a button "read from ram" It will now load the same map out of ecu's ram. Alter it as required and then when your finished changing it click "save to ram".
Your changes are instant and are saved in volatile memory. If you clear ram or disconnect battery your lose changes. Basically you modify all your maps in ram then when car performs as desired to flash the binary that you altered by ram into the ecu on the bench. All changes you do via ram are still shown to the open bin in t5suite.

You can also view all values ie RPM, TPS,, IAT, Map in realtime and datalog it to linegraphs like logworks.

The downside is it costs money to buy a canusb and many people are too tight to spend any money for gain, they want a program that tunes live to 600 hp by itself in 10 seconds and only has to be within 10m of car to do so.
For the serious guys its not a prob, I dont think.

You need either a dyno or WB to tune, this also costs money.

Another downside is it seems hard to do. Its not read this http://members.home.nl/t5suite/Trionic%205.pdf
over and over again until you understand. Dont freak out at 161 pages and not read it and ask questions instead. Just read it until you understand. (Perhaps you will learn how to adapt a T7 APC valve as well)

Its capabilities are huge. I LIVE tuned my 9000 with 3071 in like 1 hr its so much faster than reflashing everytime.

Questions
Ok, this is great news, I have a question. When you say take the two wires from can H and Can L and twist them together and plug into wiring loom near engine ecu. Do you mean plug into respective pins in data link port?

Just not clear if this is pluged into the data link pins or what?

John
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by jonny72888 View Post
put me down for one.
so am i right in thinking you can flash with canbus?


also could someone who knows about A/F maps look at this for me. im trying to get somemore back fire on decel. so if i make it rich it should do that right?
i only did it when my foot would be off the gas and the tps would be 5-10%

the only thing i touched was the tps i did not touch the load sensor, would i need to do that or should it just be left alone?


One thing that causes back fire on decel is an exhuast that is considered too big, like our 3" set-ups, we get back fire on decel. Are you saying you want more back fire and not just on decel? You could make it rich in the decel maps. You have the right maps there to do what I think you are trying to do, richen up those maps in the throttle position where you want it to back-fire and if too much gas comes rolling out the engine and hits the hot dp, it should back fire just like you want. It may take a few tries with different amounts of fuel to get the effect you are looking for.

This will effect you're gas mileage of course and instead of cutting fuel back on decel, you will still be adding a little or cutting back less.

I would try the lret Konst map and the retard K map, its probably mostly the retard K injection map that will make the most difference, but try each and see what results you get.

John
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Last edited by JZW; 08-03-2008 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by adshaft View Post
Very nice write-up! This also looks interesting with one of these, it would be awesome to have your real-times in gauge style or numeric display using logworks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/The-D...spagenameZWD1V










Count me in for 1 @$159

1- Adshaft
what about this for the canbus?
http://www.easysync-ltd.com/
it has usb and cheaper

i just got the innovate open tune system.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/ot1.php

and i got a laptop mount for a police car so i can view all the the info.

i want to use the canbus aswell so i know what i want and then i can just flash it once.


so when you make a change in the canbus it does it real time but when you go to flash the ecu do you have to keep track of the changes or will t5suite keep the data saved?

Last edited by jonny72888; 08-03-2008 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:56 AM   #18
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I don't think you will be able to use the canbus driver and Innovate opentune device at the same time... Aren't they both meant to plug into the OBd port?
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:36 PM   #19
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BDM interfaces can be had for like 15-20 Euros......
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:40 PM   #20
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Answers

You need pemicro software aswell as their bdm to flash with this style. This runs to like $500. The bdm is called USB Multilink and the software is called PROG32Z. This is a windows based software and easy to use.

You can buy a generic bdm of a german ebay supplier for like $20. This cant be run on windows. It uses a program (That is free) called bd32. It is harder to set up and can only be used on early type computers ie Windows 2000 and earlier. I have never used this set up but all reports is it seems tricky to set up.

There is no substitute for a CANUSB so dont bother looking at cheaper alternatives.

You cant "FLASH" with CANUSB you can only tune to a volatile memory. It stays there until battery is disconnected.

It plugs into a production use only connector near the ecu, NOT the diagnostic conector.

PLEASE READ TRIONIC INFO PAGES, all the info is there. Page 82 on is about CAN, do yourself a favour and read it. You will not suceed without reading

Correct, T5suite keeps track of your live changes. When your done live tuning just flash the open bin to your box.

If you want back fires on decel in firmware just change the value for decl enleanment. Just click the box. Why though, you may think you look cool but it loads up cat with fuel
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Last edited by lastaero; 08-03-2008 at 02:47 PM.
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