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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 07-27-2008, 09:26 AM   #1
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Guages...

what are some guages you have or think should be on a tuned car, im going to start doing my own tunning and want to be safe with it.



Boost/vac
EGT
oil press.
oil temp.
A/F
anything else?

and what should the min and max be for the guages?
boost/vac +30/-30 as of now im not planning on going over 30psi.
EGT 1600*F ????
oil press. 100psi oil pressure let off is 80psi.
oil temp. 140*-280* or 140*-340*F
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:05 AM   #2
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If you're tuning you need:

WIDE BAND a/f,
EGT, 0-1000 C,

for sure. Boost is nice to know, and the rest will help to let you know if something isn't right mechanically.

Edit: 3rd place should probably be Fuel Pressure if you wanted to do that

1. WBAFR & EGT
2. FPR
3. Boost.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:11 AM   #3
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I agree with Drew, however, I'd say oil pressure is more important than fuel pressure in most applications.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:14 AM   #4
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well i have 6 spots to fill

i have...
boost
oil press

im getting...
WB a/f
EGT
oil temp.

i didnt know what temp ranges to get for botht he egt and oil temp.


how could i hook up a fuel pressure sensor to the stock rail?
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:03 AM   #5
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Where in the heck are you going to install 6 guages?
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:41 AM   #6
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well i could do 9 but i dont need 9 so ill stick with 6.

https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/univ...pillarpod.aspx
https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/univ...egaugepod.aspx
im going to use those^^^^
and i could put one where the light switch is and get a dual guage holder that someone on here is selling that goes next to the cig. lighter.
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:22 PM   #7
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I have 2 on the pillar and plan on dropping 2 down by the little tray thing below the climate controls with that neato thing that one guys makes...

anyway, I agree, WBAFR, EGT, Boost, Oil Press. thats what I am going for...
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:38 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by PoisonBeef View Post
I have 2 on the pillar and plan on dropping 2 down by the little tray thing below the climate controls with that neato thing that one guys makes...

anyway, I agree, WBAFR, EGT, Boost, Oil Press. thats what I am going for...


Troof.


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Jonny, oil temp is almost useless because the main cause of high oil temp will be high EGTs, which are tied to the AFR....both of which you're going to be measuring.

There are a couple other things that might work: post-filter intake air temps and charge air temps from the manifold (for figuring out IC efficiency, heat soak, and knowing to gauge when the car will pull back timing)
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:22 AM   #9
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careful with those universal pillar pods... they usually dont fit very well.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:27 AM   #10
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careful with those universal pillar pods... they usually dont fit very well.
Yeah, even the autometer ones you have to mold. They dont look good after heating and molding. I recovered mine to look stock, I think that is the best way to go.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:50 AM   #11
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Way over-kill. Put the boost guage in the light switch and buy a pod from GS that fits right and then mount the wide band which will put you back around 400 bucks or so depending on what kit you get. Then either put the oil pressure guage or an egt guage in the other. I have all sorts of these devices but once my car was set I leave them at home. If I think I may have a problem then it takes 20 miuntes to hook up my lm-1, etc..
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jonny72888 View Post
how could i hook up a fuel pressure sensor to the stock rail?

I'm curious about this as well... anyone?
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:00 AM   #13
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I'm curious about this as well... anyone?
with the saab 900's you have to hook them up inline with the fuel feed line... you've gotta make a fitting using the gm fuel line fittings and make a "T" off of it.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:32 PM   #14
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Way over-kill. Put the boost guage in the light switch and buy a pod from GS that fits right and then mount the wide band which will put you back around 400 bucks or so depending on what kit you get. Then either put the oil pressure guage or an egt guage in the other. I have all sorts of these devices but once my car was set I leave them at home. If I think I may have a problem then it takes 20 miuntes to hook up my lm-1, etc..
i do not what to move my light switch.

so someone who can read the questions...
is 140-340*f good for oil temp?
and is 1600*f good for EGT?


byastremski...
did you do this? would you know where i could get the fittings to make it work?
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #15
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The stock range for the egt in the sw, read by o2 sensor estimates and the stock operating range of the saab engine is 900F to 1795F.

Stock turbos are know to get well into the high 1600 range and when pushed hard, into the 1700's is not unheard of.

I thought Nick said oil temp of over 200F had been read, but I can't remember for sure.

The only way to put a fpg on the set-up is to splice into the delivery fuel line, it sucks! One good thing is every bad fuel pump I have had showed lean a/f and if the car stops going below 14.0/1 under wot, there is a problem and its always been a weak fuel pump in my experience.

I have been through 5 fuel pumps on my 4 saabs and twice I have gotten bad walbro insert pumps out of the box... They would go to 17.5/1 under wot I would pull them back out of the fuel tank, exchange them out and whalla, back into the mid 11's.....

John
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:50 PM   #16
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The stock range for the egt in the sw, read by o2 sensor estimates and the stock operating range of the saab engine is 900F to 1795F.

Stock turbos are know to get well into the high 1600 range and when pushed hard, into the 1700's is not unheard of.

I thought Nick said oil temp of over 200F had been read, but I can't remember for sure.

The only way to put a fpg on the set-up is to splice into the delivery fuel line, it sucks! One good thing is every bad fuel pump I have had showed lean a/f and if the car stops going below 14.0/1 under wot, there is a problem and its always been a weak fuel pump in my experience.

I have been through 5 fuel pumps on my 4 saabs and twice I have gotten bad walbro insert pumps out of the box... They would go to 17.5/1 under wot I would pull them back out of the fuel tank, exchange them out and whalla, back into the mid 11's.....

John
so i should spring for the egt guage that reads up to 2000* then.
and an oil temp guage that goes from 140 to 280 should be fine.
thanks John
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:01 PM   #17
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Just my opinion..
Having a 500Hp Vig there is almost no way you can look at the gauges at full power.. what you need is logging with conditional alarms. (Ex leaner than x at y boost and greater than z% throttle.) This can be done with the innovate system.

Anything else put it in the glovebox like Ed Smith on his 2.5L Viggen.. That way driver drives and copilot watches the data.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:41 PM   #18
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so i should spring for the egt guage that reads up to 2000* then.
and an oil temp guage that goes from 140 to 280 should be fine.
thanks John
I would say a egt gage that reads to at least 1800f is usable and set you're limits by you're hw and power.

I can read my a/f and boost gage on my a-pilar cluster, but that is a little tricky and I need a nice straight road and wide open space. There is no question that being able to log the data, just drive it and keep you're eyes on the road and then stop and read the data is the way to go to tune.

Having the a/f there all the time and the oil pressure has saved my engine more than once. I lost oil pressure twice, once from a pin-hole leak in my oil line and I noticed my oil pressure was below 10psi while sitting at a light at idle. I pulled over, shut the car off and found it was 2 qts low on oil. I turned the car on for a second and saw it spewing out the oil line. Engine save number one...

Second time I was just driving along cruising and my oil pressure was reading very low, I pulled over and my oil line to cooler had popped off... Engine save # 2. Put on hydraulic lines with crimped ends, no more issues, knock on wood.

Then a few times I have had my a/f start to get worse and worse and then on my aero I noticed it was not even going below 14.1/1 at wot at stage 3, replaced fuel pump, back to 11.8/1 at wot.

Same thing on my ng900, could not get it to go below 13.3/1 under wot no matter how much jak added fuel in the ecu. Replaced the fuel pump and bam, back to 11.5/1 under wot.

So, even though they might not be easy to read under wot, the oil pressure and wide-band a/f gage can let you know there are problems and help you repair them before the motor goes pop.

The main issue with checking everything and then putting away you're gages is that a fuel pump issue or oil pressure issue can come up at any time and if you are keeping an eye on you're gages, you just might spot it, as I did, and turn the car off before big damage is done. My 2 cents.

John
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:59 AM   #19
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i think im going to get some gauges and something to log data.
nick, do you use innovate?
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:24 PM   #20
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Pretty sure Nick uses an innovate and he might even sell them. I have one as well as john and many others. There are pretty much the best on the market, and have great forum as well. Do your homework when you purchase one as the innovate can log all sorts of things if you get the right connections like egt's, map, injector duty cycle, boost, cht, etc...
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