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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 07-26-2008, 10:05 PM   #1
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Turbo upgrades (capable power)

I was looking at the various turbos today, and the T3 off of my SPG looks a LOT bigger than the TD04 off of a viggen.


Now, looking at compressor maps, it looks like the T3 is a more capable turbo that will flow more air and make more power. Am I reading these maps right?


TD04




T3




Has anyone put a T3 onto a NG900 as an upgrade?
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:08 PM   #2
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um i don't know of anyone.

I could be wrong thou
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:08 PM   #3
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i think my holset flows 63lb/min in it's sweet zone.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:10 PM   #4
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Q: did you try search?
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by amish_geek View Post
I was looking at the various turbos today, and the T3 off of my SPG looks a LOT bigger than the TD04 off of a viggen.


Now, looking at compressor maps, it looks like the T3 is a more capable turbo that will flow more air and make more power. Am I reading these maps right?

Has anyone put a T3 onto a NG900 as an upgrade?

I case you did not notice the x-axis is does not have the same unit in these maps, ie. the 15 is not lb/min divided by 100... Could be kg/s which add upp to real life values (210-220g/s). 0.2kg/s = 210g/s =27.8lb/min.

A plain T3 I would not go with, but a T3/T4 hybrid is good ~400bhp.
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:28 AM   #6
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I'm not sure how much difference it makes but those maps are for a 15g, and the viggen/aero turbos are 15t, yeah? I have ridden in a 9000 with the old t3 on it and it spooled up slower than dick. Yes, slower than that. Something to consider.
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge View Post
I case you did not notice the x-axis is does not have the same unit in these maps, ie. the 15 is not lb/min divided by 100... Could be kg/s which add upp to real life values (210-220g/s). 0.2kg/s = 210g/s =27.8lb/min.

A plain T3 I would not go with, but a T3/T4 hybrid is good ~400bhp.
My feelings exactly! A 60+ trim t3/t4 has been something i have asked about as well. They are fairly cheap and would make good power in the mid/high range.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge View Post
I case you did not notice the x-axis is does not have the same unit in these maps, ie. the 15 is not lb/min divided by 100... Could be kg/s which add upp to real life values (210-220g/s). 0.2kg/s = 210g/s =27.8lb/min.

A plain T3 I would not go with, but a T3/T4 hybrid is good ~400bhp.
I've been looking for a conversion calculator to convert LB/Min to Meters/Second so I can more accurately tell the difference.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:42 AM   #9
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www.onlineconversion.com

You're not talking about the same Units though. One is in Mass and the other is in Volume. If you want to go between the two you need to make some assumptions.

Google: "CFM to Lb/min conversion"
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:00 AM   #10
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Amish, I believe there are people who have swapped between T3 and TD0415t on 9000s, both 2.0 and 2.3. In every instance the TD04 was considered the much betterturbo in terms of feel.

From what I have heard, and top end gains from the standard T3 or grossly offset by how shitty the spool is. I have not heard of anyong sticking with the standard T3 in those scenarios.

As others have noted, a T3/T4 would be a worthy upgrade, only problem being the lack of T3 manifold for the ng900/og9-3
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:57 AM   #11
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How much different is a 9000's manifold?
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK View Post
Amish, I believe there are people who have swapped between T3 and TD0415t on 9000s, both 2.0 and 2.3. In every instance the TD04 was considered the much betterturbo in terms of feel.

From what I have heard, and top end gains from the standard T3 or grossly offset by how shitty the spool is. I have not heard of anyong sticking with the standard T3 in those scenarios.

As others have noted, a T3/T4 would be a worthy upgrade, only problem being the lack of T3 manifold for the ng900/og9-3

Oh, I agree, a T3/T4 upgrade would be very worthwhile and much more bang for your buck if going for more than Stage 4/5 power (GT30 territory).


There are T25 to T3 adapters http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m14.l1318



I was just shocked at how much larger the T3 is compared to the TD04, which is why I brought up the question.

With a $45 adapter, one could easily upgrade a GT17 or T25 to a T3 for cheap.



People talked about laggy spool, what makes the 2.0 C900 able to spool the T3 so low vs the T3 on a 9000 or NG900?
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amish_geek View Post
the T3 off of my SPG looks a LOT bigger than the TD04 off of a viggen.
i do design and testing on semi-trucks all day... want me to snag a turbo off one of those for you
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:34 AM   #14
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I'm getting the flange cut off a spare manifold to have the T3 flange welded on. Have had a custom built t3/t4 sitting at home for over a year now...

Really trying to have that all fitted for SOC'08.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by amish_geek View Post


People talked about laggy spool, what makes the 2.0 C900 able to spool the T3 so low vs the T3 on a 9000 or NG900?
NOTHING!

The spool on c900s is terrible! My old SPG - the one you bought spooled at like 3,000rpm, and slowly at that. Then they run out of steam at higher power levels.

You don't see that many 230+ whp c900s out there, if you do I don't think the are running the stock T3 any more. Yet, you can find cars with the TD04 15t running 270-280whp.

I challenge you to find a stock saab T3 on a car making 270-280 whp, and even if it is, its not going to spool like even a TD04 would.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:41 AM   #16
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I challenge you to find a stock saab T3 on a car making 270-280 whp, and even if it is, its not going to spool like even a TD04 would.
There's some out there that are probably making that much power, it's all the crazys running upwards of 30 psi through a standard T3. Can't find any with dynos though.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...t=jennifer%27s

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=103243
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:55 AM   #17
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Delorean made over 300ft/lbs to the wheels with his T3 running absurd boost at a dyno day last year but IIRC it was only like 230~whp.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:00 AM   #18
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Delorean made over 300ft/lbs to the wheels with his T3 running absurd boost at a dyno day last year but IIRC it was only like 230~whp.
Exactly, and with a "smaller" TD04 I have made 320lb.ft at the wheels, and 270whp will less boost. I know, 2.0 vs 2.3, but still, pretty clear its not an upgrade.

edit: mine was on a mustang dyno too
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:04 AM   #19
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i do design and testing on semi-trucks all day... want me to snag a turbo off one of those for you
he also has a holset hx35 sitting up there in two harbors
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:03 AM   #20
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Delorean made over 300ft/lbs to the wheels with his T3 running absurd boost at a dyno day last year but IIRC it was only like 230~whp.
And I think Palmer's c900 numbers were close to that (although with less boost, IIRC?)

What it comes down to is the design of the turbo. As Raul would say, "Ser, your turbo is old school, old technology. My turbo is new school."
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