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Thoughts on SQR stage 4

4K views 51 replies 19 participants last post by  JZW 
#1 ·
How do you guys feel about SQR tuning? I live driving distance from automotion and I've been thinking about taking a trip to get tuned... are they decent in comparison to Nordic/Maptun/etc?
 
#5 ·
You definitely will get mixed reviews, for sure. Let me tell you though, being close to whomever tunes your car is probably one of the most valuable aspects, and should be considered a deciding factor in your choice. Personally, I have SQR and am very satisfied. But it is very clear to me that my satisfaction compared to others is directly related to the fact that I got to school about 15 miles from Automotion and knowing that if any problems arise they can be quickly rectified. Luckly nothing has happened to cause any problems. *knock on wood (car has 165k miles!*
 
#8 ·
i agree /\/\

If I lived closer I dont think I'd have as much of an issue. My biggest problem with them is that there are fault's in my tune from them. And yes they agree to fix them, but give me no option but to find a spare ecu myself. Which is really anoying having to fork out another 100 bucks out of my own pocket for something they should of had fixed in the first place. Other then that, power is great, dyno and track proven. and reliability hasnt really been an issue.
 
#9 ·
Here are my personal thoughts.

A) For about $20 investment (more if you buy a spare ECU core), you can put on a Stage 3 tune that is *almost* as fast as an SQR stg4 tune. If you're a little more adventurous, you can modify the stage 3 tune, or whatever tune you wish, and go as fast as you want.

B) I don't like my SQR stage 4 tune. It's fast as hell, and I get good mileage with it, but I have a multitude of boost issues that I attribute 100% to the tune, as I do not have those issues with multiple other tunes (tuned and stock).

Personally, I'd go with T5suite. But that's just me...
 
#13 ·
I have seen these tunes, I have some major pro tunes in stage 3, 4 and 5 and they are similar and the main difference in a stage 3 and a stage 4 is that they take a little more knock protection out and that allows the car to hold a little more boost a little longer.

The stage 4's seem very aggressive to me with a little more boost and a little less knock protection.

I would say a stage 5 with larger turbo like tdo4-18t or gt28rs or somthing with larger fuel injectors and not pushing the stock turbo so hard right to the max is a better way to make more power.

The main difference I am seeing in Maptun, Sqr and other pro tuners is how they tune the boost maps. Sqr and others let the boost come on just about as hard as it can and then let it spike past the requested boost mark and then settle back down.

Maptun uses the pid maps to better control the boost and I have been tuning my cars with this method and it does not over-shoot at all, not even 1psi, just comes up and locks in at the requested boost mark and holds.

It could be said that the boost spikes are what cause undue stress on the gear boxes and also with a torque spike with stock turbo, you make a little more heat and that is traded off in the top end. So you have a choice, a nice torque spike and the feeling of power down lower and less top end or a nice build up of boost and no spike that allows for more top end power, but less feeling of power down low where the turbo hits.

Many people like the torque spike, but I am now starting to like the more consistant boost that allows for more power through mid-range and upper midrange.

John
 
#14 ·
the nordic tunes I have had, 02 9-3 SE auto, 99 9-5 lpt, both did not overshoot boost and hold rock steady, unless it it like 95 degrees and then it will pull back some...

but that is why you get a big IC ;) problem fixed....

in fact that is probably a requirement for stage 4+, that is why the tuners probably pull some knock protection, you are supposed to have a very good IC for that stage
 
#15 ·
I agree w/dukted. I ran the oem ic on my 9k for about a year and a half w/stage 4 and I pretty much saw what JZW & others are describing...big spike and it gradually settled down. Last April when I put the big G9/ETS ic in and all the larger piping all that stopped. No more spikes, no taper...it holds steady pretty much all the way up.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Glad to hear the hw will help with boost over-spikes, but from what I can see, the sqr and others, not nordic bring the boost up aggressively and my 9k aero would hit 25psi and fall back to 20psi. With the different boost maping like what Maptun uses, my boost comes up and nails the boost request and does not spike at all, even with stock turbo and ic size.

Part of the issue is definetely how the boost maps are tuned and part appears to be hw. Some people like that boost spike and many people want to feel that surge in torque. If you are one of those guys, you will love a sqr stage 4 tune. The custom stage 4 tune I tried would spike 28-30psi and fall back to 23-24psi on stock tdo4 turbo. It would fall off a good bit in the upper rpm of course.

With my new custom tune it just hits 18psi and holds until after the torque spike and then climbs up to 20-21psi or so and then holds a while and it does hold more boost and power higher into the rpm band, but its all a trade off.

This is more personal preference than anything, what do you want, a nice torque spike or smooth boost that is lower, but will hold higher into the rpm band...

John

the nordic tunes I have had, 02 9-3 SE auto, 99 9-5 lpt, both did not overshoot boost and hold rock steady, unless it it like 95 degrees and then it will pull back some...

but that is why you get a big IC ;) problem fixed....

in fact that is probably a requirement for stage 4+, that is why the tuners probably pull some knock protection, you are supposed to have a very good IC for that stage
I have not seen any nordic tuned files yet, but it sounds like they are mapping the boost by the pid maps more so than the reg kon mats and that is what helps to avoid over-shoots. I did hear of them having trouble figuring out how to use hex file method to look at maptun bin files and they may have learned something from that or just by good ol trial and error and time and testing.

The more tuned files you look at and compare, the more information you h ave and the more information you have, the better the tuning becomes:cool:

John
 
#24 ·
Anything for an extra post count point ;)

I don't really find their site of much use. More used for comparing requirements for different staged tunes.
 
#25 ·
i have an SQR stage 4 ecu.

It spikes the boost way up, then settles down irregularly. It has a misfire under a certain amount of vacuum. it pulls stupid hard. the misfire is something that i hope to fix/have fixed with T5Suite sometime this year, but that is still in the works/plans. I too would go with T5Suite if i were to do it again
 
#27 ·
it pulls stupid hard.
This is precisely what I'm looking for. Too used to true American power. I hopped in my roommate's 600 bhp Kenne Bell-charged Mustang and almost peed my pants as I slid the back end sideways with light throttle in second. Most Saab's have the smooth powerband, which is definitely nice, but I like it when your engine just gives you everything it's got with a nice torque spike. Makes me feel like I'm dropping straight down on a roller-coaster...:p I'm smiling just thinking about it.
 
#29 ·
If you could get past my arrogance and cocky attitude, you could come to my house in Longmont and we will custom tune you're car to run however you like it. We can have the boost come up slow and hold until after the torque peak and then climb up a little and then fade or we can have it hold rock steady at a given boost level for you're hw.

I have not seen too many tunes adapted for the elevation and you can add a little more timing up here and its always good to check the a/f. I have the portable wide-band kit and we could hook it up to you're car and really see what is going on and fine tune it...

John
 
#30 ·
This is some interesting discussion. My '94 9000 CSE has peaked ever since I got it on the road (May of 07). It came with a TD04, but stock ECU as far as I know. It would usually peak to ~17, but sometimes it would spike so bad it hit the overboost fuel-cut. It seemed to settle down recently (possibly because of the summer heat), but it still peaked and then settle down to around 14, then drop off at higher rpm. Alway a bit unstead on the boost though, I have a calibrated guage and it would usually flutter a few psi (say 12-16) under full throttle in the meat of power band, say 3k to 4.5k.

I just got a reprogrammed box with the T5suite Aero stage 1, and the T7 BPC mod. It peaks at more like 19 and fluctuates around 15-16. Still fluctuates and still peaks. I need to connect an LED to the knock pin on the box (8?) so I can see if that's why it fluctuates.

I have no other mods (stock intake and exhaust) so stage 1 is fine. What do you think JZW.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Is this car tcs? There seems to be more "boost chatter" with tcs.

The flutctuation can be a few things. One is you have not givin it enough time to adapt. My aero took about 7-9wot adaptation pulls from 2500-4500rpm in third gear or higher to start to settle down and it still took about 100 miles before it became rock steady.

Another issue that can cause fluctuation is a sticking bpc. I have been through quite a few and the t7 bpc should be better for you, but still worth checking and blowing out.

Another issue can be a weak actuator and more base boost may be needed. Make sure you have around 6-7psi base boost.

One last issue is that if you go wot low in the rpm band, say at 2500rpm, with the increased boost, it can sometimes outflow the head at lower rpms and the pressure builds up and backs up to the bpv or by pass valve or bov and you get the boost chatter and wandering boost. Once I get above 3500rpm, the head flows enough to outflow the turbo and the boost will settle down.

I was having boost fluctuation today and cleaned out my bpc with wd40 and compressed air and it went away for 2 pulls and then came back... I think its time for a new bpc or converting to the t7 bpc.

Good Luck,

John
 
#33 ·
Yes, I have about 7 cars tuned now and they are running great, I have tuned my own car for 35% E85, out of injector now and have re-tuned a stage 5 maptun tune that had some lean spots and some other issues.

Its best to custom tune as we can set the boost up how you like and actually see what the a/f is doing with the wide-band and listen for knock.

Let me know when you get back in town and we can meet up and do a little fine tuning.

John
 
#37 ·
How much do you charge? :lendostar:

hehe

how do you have a portable a/f set up? do you just use the stock 02 spot? I'm confused.. and curious.
Cheap;-) Pm me if interested... I have the innovate portable wide-band air fuel kit and it has its own o2 sensor that you plug into the rear o2 sensor hole or into an extra bung and then the cable in ran into the cabin and the power is received from the cigarette lighter hole and that runs the wide band lm-1 hand held box that has recording available. You can go out and drive it and watch it and then you can record the time and plug it up to you're computer and look at the a/f for the entire run so you get idle a/f, wot pulls and the entire session.

John
 
#35 · (Edited)
I'll have to check the bpv (hooter valve, hah, I just said hooter!), it's the one that was on the car when I got it. It doesn't have TCS. Is there a place to get a new wastegate actuator? All I see are aftermarket fancy ones that are more than I want to spend.

I may just need more adaptation time, I just installed the new ECU and T7 valve (brand new from eEuroparts) on Tuesday.
 
#36 ·
I have been running helper springs on all my staged tunes since day one. I figured why spend 180 bucks on a forge unit that has a stiffer spring when you can just add a helper spring for 5 bucks and its totally adjustable. You just make the spring shorter or longer to adjust base boost and this allows the actuator to have full travel and if you shorten the rod, you shorten the travel and it cannot open the waste gate flapper all the way to dump boost if need be.

Advance auto has them 4 in a clear pack and are brake pedal return springs. You cut it so you have to stretch it about 1/4" and that will give you about 6-7psi base boost.

John
 
#41 ·
I have passed around quite a few tunes with the Finish guys and our buddy in the Netherlands. I would not object to you having those tunes.

I should post up some of the current work were the boost comes up to around 18psi and holds until after the torque spike and then climbs on up for a little while and then fades on back down.

The thing is there are so many versions of it with tdo4-5cm2, 6cm2 and the 18t I just did and some are 3 bar map sensor, some guys want to stay stock map sensor, then some want the 3.8 fpr with green giants and some want to run the 3.0 bar fpr. I must have 12 tunes just for all the combinations...

Some want second gear to boil the tires, some want the gradual boost increase and the list just keeps building.

John
 
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