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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-17-2008, 01:57 PM   #1
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easy DIY intercooler sprayer

Made using the headlight sprayer parts that are already present. I started taking the plumbing apart just because it wasn't working and found that it was simply the split valve that was leaking so one head light wasn't getting sprayed.

Used hoses, 2 hood-mount windshield sprayers, and the splitting valve from a 9-5. Plugged the valve into the hose that runs to the driver headlight, ran the two hoses from there down by the intercooler. If you have the grid of plastic in place you could just cleanly ziptie the nozzles to it, but I have mine removed so I had to improvise.

I used a hand file to make grooves in the posts of the nozzles so that they would stay put when I squeezed them into place between the openings/slits left on the stock SE lower lip (non-talladega) when I cut the lower grill opening grid piece out... and ran the houses inside the actual lower bumper piece itself so it's a nice clean install. I draped paper towels over the intercooler to help aim the spray (adjust the individual nozzles with a pin obviously) from the 2 nozzles on each of the 9-5 sprayers.

Would be really easy to put back to stock setup. This would be good for those who are worried about wiring a switch to the cabin for a sprayer (though I am not in that group, as this is my second IC sprayer setup, the first one using a VW Rabbit reservoir and a 9-5 pump motor) though I would recommend the ziptie method instead of cutting out the bumper opening.

Apologies for cell phone pics.

How it all looks currently (until I get a better intercooler, and a talladega lip)


This is the area that now gets hosed when I wash my windshield.


And a recent clean pic just for fun (finally got around to using the Back-To-Black trim treatment, worked great!)
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:27 PM   #2
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Nice idea, I never thought of using the headlight wipers as an IC sprayer.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:34 PM   #3
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Although this will work (maybe), it will not be very efficient as the pump has to be strong and the jets small enough enough to somewhat atomize the water. It's one thing where you can soak the hell out of the IC thus getting it very cool, it's another where you just spray some water on it, the water stays on the hot ic, the hot ic warms the water thus making it less efficient then not having one at all. You want the mist light enough so that when you are moving the water is pushed through the ic and by the time it reaches the other side it has evaporated. This is not easy to do at all.
I'm knocking your setup, as it's a great idea, it's just very hard to make these systems work to ones advantage.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:56 PM   #4
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Yup, I tried it all on the dyno, water sprayer, alcohol/methonal sprayer and it made absolutely no difference on the dyno at all, lost 7whp each run no matter if it was on or not.

Tried liquid co2, -145f, it cooled the ic fine, but would get sucked into the intake and displace the oxygen and cause the engine to lean out bad and misfire like crazy.

I then moved onto w/m injection and have not looked back Cools the intake charge and also increases octane level to around 120 in the combustion chamber...

John
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:47 AM   #5
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Just to be clear, this isn't water injection. The water doesn't need to atomize - the theory (as there are tons and tons of pages over on the Australian zine "autospeed" about it) is that when you are simply treating the intercooler as a heat sink, that is, using it for one or two quick runs, not looong pulls, it can be made a MORE effective heat sink by covering it in water, as water is more resistant to temperature change than metal alone. Though yes, if the water were in smaller droplets, that would be desirable. That isn't as important in this setup.

I have consistently seen 2 to 3 more pounds of boost when I spray !BEFORE! I do a pull on the road, compared to when I don't spray at all. Just think of IC functioning simply for a moment as a heat sink, then it cools off normally. I'm not trying to cool it, just make it a more effective heat sink.

Also I have been getting out of the car after runs to see how much water is left on the IC and most of it blows off within a minute of driving at normal speeds, so I'm not sure it makes the IC hot in the long run.

I can't wait to do w/m injection but this was free and took 10 minutes, I'm going to do w/m injection after I'm running a good intercooler.

EDIT: Here's the bit about heat sinking. http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0527/article.html

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Old 06-18-2008, 01:31 PM   #6
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Yea, I know... I was talking about the fact that I tried every spraying water and methonal on the ic to try and cool it. I tested it on the dyno and it made absolutely no difference there. Lost 7whp each run no matter if the sprayer was on or off...

I was saying that I gave up on spraying the outside of the ic and went with a nice snowperformance boost cooler w/m injection on the inside!

From everything I was told about spraying water/alcohol on the outside of the ic, the evaperation is what does the cooling and just soaking it with water can have the opposite effect and it will super-heat the water and actually cause the temp to rise!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The atomization of the water is crucial and the better atomized it is, the better evaporation you will get and the better cooling, but like I said, I tested it on the dyno a buch of times and it did absolutely nothing. I tried water, alchohol, methonal/water mix, straight methonal and the went onto liquid co2, which cooled the ic fine, but got sucked into the intake and caused the car to misfire badly and lean out....

John
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:10 PM   #7
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Yep, I know were talking about spraying the IC and not injection. I have had WI on 2 other cars (one over 640whp-whoopie) and I have a sprayer on my car right now. I also subscribe to autospeed so please do not try and "school" me on the subject. But I do see what you are doing now, you are some-what soaking the ic before you do wot runs. If you are seeing 2-3psi then that's great!
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Old 06-19-2008, 10:37 AM   #8
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jzw - I wonder if the reason you weren't seeing temp drops on the dyno was because of airflow. I don't know how hard it is to simulate real life driving conditions on the dyno but if you check out that Autospeed article you'll see what I'm doing, and maybe the same couldn't be recreated without the IC returning to ambient temps between runs (since it's just stewing in its own heat near the engine on a dyno). I don't blame you for abandoning the idea if you weren't seeing gains though, that's sensible. You're also definitely right about this not being very efficient.

lms - I'm not trying to school you. I didn't think my reply was uncalled for, I was simply trying to give an explanation for why the following you posted wasn't the case:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lms View Post
it's another where you just spray some water on it, the water stays on the hot ic, the hot ic warms the water thus making it less efficient then not having one at all.
My apologies if you're offended. I'm not implying you (+jzw) don't know what you're talking about - you obviously know quite a bit to both have built incredibly powerful cars - I'm just talking about a specific case.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to try it out at the track as one of my rear tires was deemed "too bald in the middle tread" and I didn't pass the pre-staging inspections. My fault for not checking I suppose... before I drove two hours to the track. My friend is running a poorly made water "sprayer" on his top mount intercooler on his FC rx-7 and he's seeing a similarly small gain though in brief WOT runs.

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Old 06-19-2008, 05:37 PM   #9
 
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....you're right about the evaporation being the critical part missing on a dyno run....
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
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....you're right about the evaporation being the critical part missing on a dyno run....
Don't they put those huge fans in front of the car during dyno runs?
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:37 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
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Don't they put those huge fans in front of the car during dyno runs?

Not huge enough.
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:41 PM   #12
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:44 PM   #13
 
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LOL.....


Now THAT'S a fan.....
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
....you're right about the evaporation being the critical part missing on a dyno run....
Evaporation is the key and I had a high power pump, 125psi and great atomization from the 4 nozzles that covered a wide section of the ic.

I had my industrial floor fan 2' from the ic and the shop had 3 more big fans going.... Lost 7whp each time no matter what I did or how much I sprayed or soaked the ic....

Look at the consistancy with w/m injection....

John
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:28 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
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Evaporation is the key and I had a high power pump, 125psi and great atomization from the 4 nozzles that covered a wide section of the ic.

...bends down, wipes hand on rag, spits chaw in dust...

See, now there's yer problem...


You don't want to atomize the water for an IC sprayer. (But you definitely do for a water/meth injection)

By atomizing the water before spraying on the IC, you're speeding up the evaporative process. You want to slow it down, and let the latent heat capacity of the water carry away the IC heat. A fan-shaped spray will work just fine...

Misting with atomized water is fine for cooling stuff that isn't moving, like sweaty summer concert goers..
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:35 AM   #16
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That is not what I was told... The better its atomized, the better it will cool the coil... The evaporation process is what cools and if you put straight water on the coil, it can superheat and actually make it hotter...

Anyway, that is what the race shop guy was telling me... Don't really know what is best, but that seemed to make sense and I tried everything from soaking the ic to using my 125psi pump. None of it seemed to make any difference, but I did get some nice results just by running the cooling fan all the time...

John
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:19 AM   #17
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I really do not think an aquamist or snow pump can actually atomize the water if sprayed onto an ic. But the water droplets are pretty damn small which is what you want. Now if you inject like John is doing, once the water hits the air stream in the delivery pipe it then atomizes to a certain extent which is what one wants when you are injecting water.
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