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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-08-2008, 05:17 AM   #1
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Modifying control arm mount for adjustable camber?

would it be possible to modify the control arm mounting point on the subframe so that you could move the control arm back and forth, to adjust camber?

if you did so, would you also need to modify the stanchion arm/curved arm mounting point, or would it be able to stay in the stock location? my thought is that since the stanchion arm is connected to the control arm via that massive bushing, the bushing would be able to absorb whatever adjustment you made to the control arm.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:54 AM   #2
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What your talking about is Caster if I read you right (back and forth). Attempting to change camber by changing the mounting angle of the control arm would probably have no effect as the ball joint in the end of the arm my return it all back to normal.



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Old 06-08-2008, 07:13 AM   #3
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no. you did not read that right.

what i'm talking about is elongating the mounting slots for the bolt that holds the control arm to the subframe, to adjust the camber of the wheels. with my lowering springs, i have a truely epic amount of negative camber, and it's raping my tires.

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Old 06-08-2008, 07:14 AM   #4
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Back and forth as to front to back or side to side?
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:15 AM   #5
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Gotcha. Well structurally it doesn't sound so hot...

Also, I do not think the stanchion arm would like that too much. It would not be much of a change in the end, but enough that it would likely want to move the joint of the stanchion and control arm towards the front of the car which would put stress on so many more parts.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:18 AM   #6
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obviously it would be easier to move the strut mount out, but since nobody has made a suspension plate to do this, i assume that thats not very easy either...
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:24 AM   #7
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Sorry Castor but what you showed in the paint shop picture will change the toe setting.

There really isn't any way to change the camber unless you modify the strut mount up top. You've seen the rear camber shims and how they work on our car. Thats how you'd normally change the camber but no way to really do that up front without elongating the slots for the 3 nuts on the strut mounts but then that would cause issues in mounting the strut brace..........it gets nasty as you can tell.



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Old 06-08-2008, 09:31 AM   #8
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Why don't you just start doing auto events with us and scrub your tires down.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:58 PM   #9
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With the strut setup unless there is something bent you will have very little camber gain with compression. If you look at the math there is very little angle to be gained by offsetting the inner bushing. I looked into offering offset bushings as an option with my bushings.

About the top mount same story the factory springs are too close to the body to get any decent gains from slotting the upper mounts. This is one of the key reasons I figured out the coilovers for my Viggen. Tons of room now. But with the stiff springs I don't need so much negative camber since there is much less bump travel. Preserving the camber that is there.
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2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 E85
Viggen 439whp / 447tq 12.43 @114 on Gt2871.64, (Now 511whp Gt3076)
Nordic E85 9-3 SS Aero 320hp / 350ftlbs
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:51 PM   #10
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by the way, that negative camber is also one of the components thats makes your car take those twisties so nicely. a price to pay im afraid is inner wear on the tires.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:40 PM   #11
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Yup, you want negative camber for handling! Abbott raced the ng900 and 93 for years and they recommend around -1 degree in the rear and close to that in the front. Forget the tracking they recommend.

My voxtland springs and koni adjustable made my car end up -1.8 in the rear and -1.4 in the front.

John
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:19 AM   #12
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just drive the thing harder. I never had uneven tire wear (well maybe front tires compared to rear tires ). I was running eibach springs and koni adjustables and poly bushings all around.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy View Post
obviously it would be easier to move the strut mount out, but since nobody has made a suspension plate to do this, i assume that thats not very easy either...
this is the very thing i have been looking for and am very curious whether the 9-5 upper mount(full caster/camber plate) made by ksport could be modified for the 9-3.

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Old 06-10-2008, 01:54 PM   #14
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Anything is possible with enough money and research. Nick said the strut will actually hit the inner part of the wheel well or some other part of the car, so to be able to get enough camber to make a big difference, you would end up hitting the inner fender well or something with the strut assembly.

You could also move the castor around and that is supposed to help a lot in some track conditions. I saw an evo and ford escort both get the top of the strut housing mounting location removed, ground flush and then an adjustable camber/castor plate be welded onto the top of the old strut mount location.

I am sure you could find an aftermarket plate that would work, it would then be the ability to actually move the strut enough to adjust the camber and castor the way you want it.

Its possible that if you moved the castor enough, the camber could also be moved enough without the strut making contact with other parts.

With all that trouble, you are probably better off just buying the coil over strut/shock asssemblies and be done with it...

John
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:14 AM   #15
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I had adjustable camber/caster plates on an old race car and an old auto-x car. There has to be enough room in the fender so this is possible, and from what nick has stated, the 9-3 has no room for camber plates as the strut assembly would hit the inner fender. Plus from what i can tell the top mounting point does not have enough room for these??? But as John said, if you are good with a welder then you could cut and weld.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:20 PM   #16
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i have this same problem my car with lesjofor lowering springs and KYB shocks and struts. i wore out a set of new tires in 2 months on my car, my camber is rediculusly out i know it is adjustable with shims in the rear i just havent gone and got it alighned yet. no money to do so, i was thinking of building adjustable lower control arms and sancton arms along with an adjustable top plate to get plenty of adjustability out of them i havent looked into it enough to see what all it will take but it is one of the many things i plan on building for my car. as for the strut tower bar not fiting that is an easy salutoin making an adjustable one i have built a couple and they are not hard to do. i just have to many projects and not enough time to do all of them or enough cash, this seems to be my life story.

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Old 06-20-2008, 07:07 PM   #17
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With the strut setup unless there is something bent you will have very little camber gain with compression. If you look at the math there is very little angle to be gained by offsetting the inner bushing. I looked into offering offset bushings as an option with my bushings.

About the top mount same story the factory springs are too close to the body to get any decent gains from slotting the upper mounts. This is one of the key reasons I figured out the coilovers for my Viggen. Tons of room now. But with the stiff springs I don't need so much negative camber since there is much less bump travel. Preserving the camber that is there.
WHat about the nordic boys here? Seems like they have a camber/castor plate working just fine on this car...
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...k-Car/DSC01003

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...k-Car/DSC01009

They even turned the strut bar into a back motor mount Mine is similar, but on the other side...

Entire race car link. very similar to what my car is for power, the 2.3 motor, w/m injection and all that good stuff...

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...Saab-Track-Car

John
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Old 06-21-2008, 05:09 AM   #18
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WHat about the nordic boys here? Seems like they have a camber/castor plate working just fine on this car...
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...k-Car/DSC01003

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...k-Car/DSC01009

They even turned the strut bar into a back motor mount Mine is similar, but on the other side...

Entire race car link. very similar to what my car is for power, the 2.3 motor, w/m injection and all that good stuff...

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgaller...Saab-Track-Car

John
Yes, but do they have coil-overs as well which would give them enough room??
The mount from the strut bar to the motor looks very easy to do, but would it be to stiff for the street??
Interesting that they would mount the injection pump above the reservoir which is not the ideal location based on air bubbles and such, but what do I know.
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:28 PM   #19
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Yea, the pump should be lower than the bottle and as close as possible. Not thinking I guess?

John
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cruzer51 View Post
i have this same problem my car with lesjofor lowering springs and KYB shocks and struts. i wore out a set of new tires in 2 months on my car, my camber is rediculusly out i know it is adjustable with shims in the rear i just havent gone and got it alighned yet. no money to do so, i was thinking of building adjustable lower control arms and sancton arms along with an adjustable top plate to get plenty of adjustability out of them i havent looked into it enough to see what all it will take but it is one of the many things i plan on building for my car. as for the strut tower bar not fiting that is an easy salutoin making an adjustable one i have built a couple and they are not hard to do. i just have to many projects and not enough time to do all of them or enough cash, this seems to be my life story.
The thing is that you lower the car for two reasons, looks.... Don't care about that and for performance in handling and getting the cg lower and that helps the car corner better. The next thing you do to make a car handle better is put in negative camber, well when you lower the car with springs, it automatically gives you negative camber and that is what you want for performance and handling anyway.

Its a win/win for performance when you lower the car in my opinion, you get the negative camber and you get the lower cg. To take the negative camber back out of the car would be counter productive in my opinion, except for the tire wear.

I just rotate mine every 3k or so and they seem to do pretty good...

John
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