Gt3071 .64 compared to .86 - Page 3 - The Saab Link Forums

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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 05-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #41
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Hey, me too Make the hw work in the right location, don't try and make the sw control the hw that is not quite rigth

Amish, I realize what vigge was saying and I understand it can be done with sw, but like stated, I kind of like to get the hw working in the area I want it to work, or buy the right hw that works well in the rpm area I want it to, then the sw work is much easier

I guess its half a dozen one way and 6 the other....

John
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:13 AM   #42
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Of course you cannot make HW work in an area where it cant work with SW, that was not the idea of my statement, more like that at least I want to have my HW under SW control in order to dig out as much torque the chassis can support as low in rpm as possible, with the though in mind that the top rpm remains functional, just like the case seems to be after the housing swap, ie. high rpm area is more or less the same but registry extended downwards. If wanted in this area I can map the SW so that it behaves like the 0.86 housing, but rather take the use out of it. Higher spool and limiting torque that way works also, but keep in mind that in higher gears you do not have the traction limit, but if the turbo is incapable of spooling you cannot get the torque for the lower revs, which is really the point by having spool control the traction not SW.
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:12 AM   #43
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Yea, I get all that, how are you liking the .64ar turbine housing? Are you thinking of switching back to the .86ar?

I would like to see what you're egt increase is after you got it leaned out again.

John
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:19 AM   #44
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Yea, I get all that, how are you liking the .64ar turbine housing? Are you thinking of switching back to the .86ar?

I would like to see what you're egt increase is after you got it leaned out again.

John
havent driven the car since last week and wont be able to drive it until next week (out travelling...)
But looking at the results obtained so far they do not indicate that EGT would sky rocket even if I remove some fuel (plenty marginal to go)
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:24 AM   #45
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Back in business...
Did not have much time today for other testing, but since it was cold out (45F) tested the spool. Spooled in this weather roughly 100rpm lower. (blue curve vs. yellow)
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Old 05-18-2008, 09:35 AM   #46
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Still looks better, but still wondering if you have had a chance to lean it out some and get similar a/f ratios and then see what the egt number are doing?

My car with rich a/f was stable at 1550F egt's and after some long pulls, I would get into the low 1620F range.

With new tune and much more acceptable a/f ratios, 11.8/1 to 12.5/1, my car spools up a lot faster, makes more boost and the egt's went up about
100F. I am now making a lot more torque and have quicker spool, but my egts are now in the 1730F range and if I beat on it for 2-3 long pulls I approach 1780F temps again.

I am thinking if I go back to the .64ar turbine housing, those egt's will cross over the 1800F limit I have for myself and be back in the 1850F range.

If I bolt up this .64ar turbine housing, I can't return it to atp, I was hoping to get the information from you since you had one around for free. If you can, please get some time and get the a/f back into the mid 12's like you had it before and see what the egt's end up doing and that will help me decide on whether to keep this turbine or return it for the new t25 external waste-gate turbine that atp is about to release.

Thanks,

John
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:33 AM   #47
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Nope that was pretty much the only WOT pull I made today after being away for a week. Today it was also damp out, so no use to to even try to get grip in 3rd.
14th of June is the next top speed constest and I will need to find the time to test this housing well before it, in order to have the "better" in the car and mapping optimized when the day arrives.

But to get some idea of where my EGT are compared to yours with the ar 0.86, here is a recent 0-240 (afr 11.8-12.2) run
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/egt_240.jpg
As the temps are quit "low" and there is easily room for an additonal 100C increase.

Last edited by Vigge; 05-18-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:57 AM   #48
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That is similar to mine with similar boost and a/f, its easy to see how the rich a/f lowers the egt in the upper end. It will be interesting to see what it does with the a/f more like it was before, 12.5/1 across the rpm band...

I will probably try this .64ar turbine housing out because yesterday it got pretty hot, 85F and the lag got worse and it feels pretty bad when the density altitude is 10,000'

Its going to help some with the new tranny, but still think I would need either nitrous with .86ar or just the .64ar...

Also: the elevation is supposed to be good for an increase in egt's by 150-200F, that seems to be fairly accurate too...

John
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:36 AM   #49
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That is similar to mine with similar boost and a/f, its easy to see how the rich a/f lowers the egt in the upper end. It will be interesting to see what it does with the a/f more like it was before, 12.5/1 across the rpm band...
actually my afr aim has always been around 11.8-12 and dont remember to many runs where I would have had it 12.5 cross the board. Richening the afr a few tents does hardly alter the egt.

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Old 05-19-2008, 12:15 PM   #50
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I saw one spot where it went back to 10.0/1 for a minute after the torque spike and that lowered the egt...

John
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:40 PM   #51
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I saw one spot where it went back to 10.0/1 for a minute after the torque spike and that lowered the egt...

John
few tents (+-0.2) and going down to 10/1 are two diffent things in case you did not realize it when you wrote the comment.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:48 PM   #52
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Don't really get what you mean, but its kind of weird, it says its 5770rpm and 10.0/1 after it was 6000rpm or something, is that a fluke?

John
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:16 PM   #53
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Don't really get what you mean, but its kind of weird, it says its 5770rpm and 10.0/1 after it was 6000rpm or something, is that a fluke?

John
jee, I change gear from 4th to fifth at that moment... so naturally the EGT will momentarily drop when there the throttle is shut and there is "no" air flow through the engine.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #54
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Regarding the same topic here is a short 75-130km/h run in 4th with all other settings the same but afr curvers with a whole 1 off-set.
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/afr_egt.jpg
note both the spool and EGT, you dont see much diffence do you?
The extra fuel for cooling will not remove temp "for ever" when you richen the mixture" its affect kind-of satures so to say after the afr is rich enough...
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:34 PM   #55
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jee, I change gear from 4th to fifth at that moment... so naturally the EGT will momentarily drop when there the throttle is shut and there is "no" air flow through the engine.
I don't see that type of drop in a/f when I shift, mine goes off the scale lean when I am not on the throttle or in decel, once I go back to part throttle, it drops back down to its normal a/f ratio...

John
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:59 PM   #56
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I don't see that type of drop in a/f when I shift, mine goes off the scale lean when I am not on the throttle or in decel, once I go back to part throttle, it drops back down to its normal a/f ratio...

John
I dont cut fuel thats why not even when on motor brake, keeps things cooler and is possible to create a "flame" in the rear when you lift and motor brake if you wish
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:18 PM   #57
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I dont cut fuel thats why not even when on motor brake, keeps things cooler and is possible to create a "flame" in the rear when you lift and motor brake if you wish
you mean you run a small amount of fuel on the over run? not dumping loads of fuel in surely? they never do that these days as the environment comes before the cost of melted internals!
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:44 PM   #58
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you mean you run a small amount of fuel on the over run? not dumping loads of fuel in surely? they never do that these days as the environment comes before the cost of melted internals!
Trionic wont do it since it would newer pass the emissions classes the motor are rated for, but if you think of it a car pushing high high bhp will put so much "environmetal gases" when on wot that a tad extra on the over run wont really show up on the total.
The cat does not "purify" when afr is not stoich.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:49 PM   #59
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like all modern cars as soon as the tps is shut or throttle lifted (fly by wire) the injectors are off. unless you get wheel spin and sudden traction then it will spit flames
i spose its impossible to get any trionic to overfuel slighly on the over run then?
i know my t7 keeps the dam throttle open when you lift off holding the revs up!
btw whats all this cat rubbish? they cost more for less, mine only surfaces at mot time
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:38 PM   #60
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IIRC the fuel cut settings can found and ajusted in the SW. Look into T5suite to see.
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