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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 05-02-2008, 03:10 PM   #1
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Holset turbo on stock manifold...

I'm thinking it might fit.
Asked Vigge about this and he said he wasn't sure, so I figured I would post here. They make a t25 to t3 adapter which is 3/4" thick (saw it on ebay) which would allow the Holset to fit to the stock ex. manifold.I think with the adapter, nick's manifold spacer, and the intake side trimmed down a bit, it might work. Has anybody tried this? I'm thinking about using the HX35w (internal wastegate model). Does anybody have dimensions on this unit?
Watta u guys think?
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:02 PM   #2
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JK has an HX35 on his 91 aero.

There is a thread...
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:23 PM   #3
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My setup is not going to apply one bit to a 9-3 unfortunately because of differences in the manifold setups.

I was able to do it on the 9000 with the stock mani because of how much room there is on a 9000. I suspect things will be much tighter on a 9-3.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:48 PM   #4
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My setup is not going to apply one bit to a 9-3 unfortunately because of differences in the manifold setups.

I was able to do it on the 9000 with the stock mani because of how much room there is on a 9000. I suspect things will be much tighter on a 9-3.
I'm not that familiar with the Holsets but I think the turbo options are the HY35 or HX35. I will probably keep internal wastegate if I go with one also. Do you know the flow capacities on these (how much hp they are good for)?
Thanks.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by a12 View Post
I'm not that familiar with the Holsets but I think the turbo options are the HY35 or HX35. I will probably keep internal wastegate if I go with one also. Do you know the flow capacities on these (how much hp they are good for)?
Thanks.

there are lots and lots of different variants of both the hy and hx35, plus hx40's, hx30's, and lots more. if you search around on google you should get some good info, they're popular with the DSM's and turbo dodge people. Like I said theres a lot of different combinations, but it seems that the typical hx35 is good for around 650whp or so...

Paul
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Old 05-02-2008, 08:32 PM   #6
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They are monsters and spool-up just about as fast as a gt3076 or gt3582 and just keep flowing to like 80# or so of air.

Marko made 600hp no problem on his ng900 or 9-3, not sure on that, but he had 300hp at 3500rpm or something.

I don't think you could get it to fit on a 9-3 stock manifold unless you flip it around and remove the ac and get the dp on belt side to make it fit. You could get a gt35r to fit on the stock manifold if you flip it around like Nordic did on their 10 second car.

I almost did this, but decided I have to have ac in the summer

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Old 05-03-2008, 05:47 AM   #7
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I'm not that familiar with the Holsets but I think the turbo options are the HY35 or HX35. I will probably keep internal wastegate if I go with one also. Do you know the flow capacities on these (how much hp they are good for)?
Thanks.
To estimate the flow capisity is done best by looking at the compressor inducer diameter.
in diam / bhp
45 / 318
46 / 332
47 / 347
48 / 362
49 / 377
50 / 393
51 / 409
52 / 425
53 / 441
54 / 458
55 / 475
56 / 493
57 / 510
58 / 528
59 / 547
60 / 565
61 / 584
62 / 604
63 / 623
64 / 643
65 / 664

There are a brod range a H1E's out there and some call certain variants also "HX35". The compressor inducers range from 50-60mm. If I recall correctly Marko H1E was 55 in 65 out and with #14 turbine housing. BHP what you get with a certain turbo naturally depends on the rest of the HW and the used fuel (E85 or "normal").

A HX40 Super with 60 in 65 out is a widely used combo here. The super "model" has the compressor housing from HX35.
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:56 AM   #8
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Those things are monsters and if I do another big turbo application, I will most likely get away from the "superior technology" of the gtbb turbos and go with a nice big Holset.

I also hear the Holset turbos are much more reliable when it comes to compressor surge that can knock a bb turbo out fast. You can also rebuild the Holset and find them used all over the place dirt cheap! They seem to spool up as fast or even faster in some cases and just keep flowing well beyond what a gt35r would do.

The biggest issue is the size and need for a tubular manifold, but if you are going tubular anyway, why not fab one up for the Holset monster?

John
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:28 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info guys.
I am trying to avoid the extra cost of a tubular manifold. If the Holset I choose (if it will fit) has a divided turbine inlet, I will probably take a grinder to it and port it out like you would the air passages to the intake valves in the head when porting (if that makes any sense). Thin out the division a little bit.
I am looking for about 400 bhp,maybe a bit more. What internally wastegated Holset would support this?I am thinking the one with a 52 or 53 mm compressor inducer diameter.
So the Holsets cmpressor sides are measured in this way, what about the turbine sides? Aren't the turbine housings numbered like#12,#14, etc?
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #10
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Yea, I think the #12 is a 12cm2 and the #14 is a 14cm2, its huge! The regular gt3071 .64ar is like 9cm2....!

Do some google searches, there are some companies that make the Holset turbos and the one company was going to make me whatever combination I wanted. You could call them and tell them you're hp goal and the builder will make a recomendation for the size wheels and housings and then he will even set up the actuator for the base boost that you want...

Good Luck,

John
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:48 PM   #11
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Yea, I think the #12 is a 12cm2 and the #14 is a 14cm2, its huge! The regular gt3071 .64ar is like 9cm2....!

Do some google searches, there are some companies that make the Holset turbos and the one company was going to make me whatever combination I wanted. You could call them and tell them you're hp goal and the builder will make a recomendation for the size wheels and housings and then he will even set up the actuator for the base boost that you want...

Good Luck,

John
I would say look for a something with #12 housing and mostly look for examples from real life, because many delers do not have "that" much experince how the semi turbos work on small discplacement engines like our saabs. I believe to John one US dealer quoted that the Super HX40 with 60/65 #14 wouldnt spool on a 2.3 prior to rev limiter, but in real life even on a 2.0 saab with proper HW it will deliver full boost just after 4000rpms On the 2.0 it will sign up to 7800rpms a good for 600+ bhp.

In Finland I know one car with HX35 (54mm inducer #12) , mounted to orig 9k manifold in a 2.3 9000. This consept delivers 0.5bar boost at 2500rpms.

The Holset internal WG's are not really that good and you may run into problems that you cannot limit the boost low enough.
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Old 05-06-2008, 07:55 AM   #12
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I would say look for a something with #12 housing and mostly look for examples from real life, because many delers do not have "that" much experince how the semi turbos work on small discplacement engines like our saabs. I believe to John one US dealer quoted that the Super HX40 with 60/65 #14 wouldnt spool on a 2.3 prior to rev limiter, but in real life even on a 2.0 saab with proper HW it will deliver full boost just after 4000rpms On the 2.0 it will sign up to 7800rpms a good for 600+ bhp.

In Finland I know one car with HX35 (54mm inducer #12) , mounted to orig 9k manifold in a 2.3 9000. This consept delivers 0.5bar boost at 2500rpms.

The Holset internal WG's are not really that good and you may run into problems that you cannot limit the boost low enough.
Is the flapper valve opening small or something and this causes boost regulation problems?

So do the Hx35's also have different size turbine wheels or just different # housings?
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Old 05-06-2008, 08:31 AM   #13
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All the above, the housing # is the a/r for them or #12 is 12cm2 and #14 is 14c,2, they offer many wheel combinations. Call them up and see what they recommend and then do some more research and see what guys are using.

Marko would be a good source of info and vigge.

The 60 in and 60out or super 40 is supposed to be the real performer.

Good Luck,

John
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:27 AM   #14
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Is the flapper valve opening small or something and this causes boost regulation problems?

So do the Hx35's also have different size turbine wheels or just different # housings?
both the flapper size and the fact that if the turbine housing is devided it only bypass the exhaust gases from one of the two canals.

You can basically get the turbo with what ever size wheels and housing you wish up to some degree. The super 40 is a "bit" overkill if the aim is something like 400whp.
A combo that is know to work is also HX35 with 56/82 compressor wheel and 58/68 turbine wheel. Housing #12 or #14 (the dimension after / is the wheels bigger diameter) With #14 housing will give 1bar <3000rpms. Even this is quit "big", but dont have so many examples to point from smaller holsets and saabs.
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:06 AM   #15
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Check this comparison gt3076vs holset super 40

Check out the difference in the holset super 40 vs. gt3076 on dsm.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg beforeandafter.jpg (57.6 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg holsetvs3076.JPG (41.5 KB, 166 views)
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:12 AM   #16
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Thanls for the info guys! Seems like the spoolup on these is comparable to Gt series turbos and they are capable of making even more power. I can see i have some research to do. I'm gonna do my best to get one of these on a stock manifold. Do you guys know anything about the oil feed and return line connection sizes? These are only oil fed right? No water cooling jacket?
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #17
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Check out the difference in the holset super 40 vs. gt3076 on dsm.
John is there a specific reason why the comparison on dyno is 2nd gear with Holset and 3rd gear with garrett? In terms of spool higher gear is favored. And to be honest that super HX looks relly "wicked" or is just a holset wheel in a different frame?
Pics of one super hx40
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/super_hx40.jpg
and an another one
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo2.jpg
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo3.jpg
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo5.jpg

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Old 05-06-2008, 12:24 PM   #18
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Don't know, it was supposed to be a caparison of the two turbos on the same car, did not notice it was different gears, he said he stopped the run on the holset because he had proven the spool-up part of the test.

John
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:32 PM   #19
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John is there a specific reason why the comparison on dyno is 2nd gear with Holset and 3rd gear with garrett? In terms of spool higher gear is favored. And to be honest that super HX looks relly "wicked" or is just a holset wheel in a different frame?
Pics of one super hx40
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/super_hx40.jpg
and an another one
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo2.jpg
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo3.jpg
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/turbo5.jpg
None of you'res show the compressor wheel with the compressor cover off the turbo, that is why it looks so big,

Here is the whole thread.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11...il-spirit.html


John
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:17 PM   #20
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None of you'res show the compressor wheel with the compressor cover off the turbo, that is why it looks so big,

Here is the whole thread.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11...il-spirit.html


John
Meant mostly the turbine housing.

Anyway the HX40 super 60/65 compressor wheel is not that "huge", its 60mm inducer 80mm exducer (various models are of course out with different diameters)
GT3076 has a Compressor wheel 57.0mm inducer 76.2mm exducer and thereby looking at the picture its kind-of difficult to see a few mm difference among the two.
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