water/meth install. loss of boost :-( - The Saab Link Forums

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Old 04-11-2008, 06:30 PM   #1
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water/meth install. loss of boost :-(

ok, i installed my water/meth kit and now i have much less boost.
3ed it pulls great, 4th good to, 5th it will got from 21psi to 10psi. i know know that heat sink would do that but thats a big drop. any one got any ideas that i could try out?

here are teh pictures of the install, think i found the best place to put it all.
comments and questions welcome.





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Old 04-11-2008, 06:33 PM   #2
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Nice install.
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:36 PM   #3
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Did you add about 30 feet of plumbing to your IC setup?
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:38 PM   #4
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Did you add about 30 feet of plumbing to your IC setup?
what do you mean? for the water/meth?
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:22 PM   #5
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maybe too much water/meth mixture? try a smaller jet
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:21 AM   #6
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I'm with him^^^^. So I guess you have a manual switch inside cabin so you can turn it off?. If so turn it off and drive it around and is it back to normal? What I did on my old spg was get the smallest jet, installed it, and if it ran good I went to a higher jet size until the car was getting to much water and backed off.
Can you take a pic of where you installed jet?
What kind of meth are you using? Are you using windshield washer fluid? That's what I used and I just tapped right into the bottom of the stock washer bottle thus eliminating the extra bottle which I'm not sure is placed in the greatest place as it will impede airflow to radiator. But if you live in a cool climate, so what.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:54 AM   #7
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The fist thing you need to try is good methonal in the mix, that is you're knock protection

The level you gave me would have been about 90% water/ 10% methonal, I am not surprised you have a loss in hp

Even washer fluid is only 35% methonal and 65% water and thats the good stuff! The cheap blue stuff is about 25% methonal and 75% water!

Find a source of 99.7% methonal and mix that 50/50 with distilled or purified water.

Turn you're pump down 3 full turns and then readapt the ecu. W/m is just another system that has to be tuned to you're car. #1 thing is good methonal...

John
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:34 AM   #8
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i have the smallest jet in right now (i think, how do know the size?)
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:51 AM   #9
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It should be stamped on the side of the jet, but i the pump is adjustable then give that a shot.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:53 AM   #10
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It should be stamped on the side of the jet, but i the pump is adjustable then give that a shot.
i think i have the smallest jet in. i have the one with the smallest hole of the two.
so i should try turing the pump down, but how far? if i have the screw in all the way how far should i back it out?
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:22 PM   #11
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ok, i put the other jet in and nothing happen. then i turned the pump down 5 turns and nothing happen.
its just like heat soak, 3ed pulls so hard and then 4th does but at 5k it starts to lose boost then in 5th it can just slowly go down to 12psi.
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:16 PM   #12
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Nothing is going to change much until you get the right mix of methonal in there

The pump comes with pressure all the way up, 2mm allen, turn it out 3 full turns, each turn is about 20psi reduction. Turn it counter clockwise 3 full turns and then get the mixture of methonal to water correct and you will start to see an increase in torque...

John
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:31 AM   #13
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How does this system work? Is the water injected via boost pressure? If so maybe you should have it inject later??
Stupid question, but are you sure it's injecting water at all when on the road?
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:15 AM   #14
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Could boost be leaking out from the seal around the jet?
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:42 AM   #15
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How does this system work? Is the water injected via boost pressure? If so maybe you should have it inject later??
Stupid question, but are you sure it's injecting water at all when on the road?
Two things here: One is the biggest problem with w/m is getting the right mixture thoughout the rpm range. With an on/off system like he has, the mixture will only be right for about 200rpm and be too rich for most of the rpm band and not be enough in the high rpm band.

That is why I went with variable controller, stage 2 kit, it allows you to have a boost onset start boosting at say 10% of flow rate at lower boost levels and then adjust the boost rate it reaches full injection rate of 100%. In between those two set-points the contoller uses a linier graph to inject between the points. Mine is start at 8psi and reach full at 25psi.

This is done by a solenoid contoller hooked up to the fuel injector wires with aquamist and a boost controller with snow performance. Its one of the most important things in my opinion to getting the mixture right througout the rpm band.

The next thing is the methonal: This gives you the high octane effect, some say 120 octane and this is what allows more timing and more boost and if you don't have good methonal and at least a 50/50 mix, you will little to no gains!

I ran out one day at the dyno and ran washer fluid at w/m at 70/30% and it lost hp and torque from my good 50/50 mix, it did horrible!

I just turned my w/m injection back on yesterday and I could feel it pull harder and it gained 3psi of boost and held all the way to 6k! It works well, but has to be tuned right and has to have good methonal in the mix!

John
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:46 AM   #16
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Could boost be leaking out from the seal around the jet?
This is possible, it has to be sealed with goop and also, if you tighten the jet more than 1/2 turn past snug, it will reduce flow of the injector by a ton!

His sytem, stage 1, is only an on/off set-up, when it turns on at say 10psi, it turns on full blast! There is no way to keep the mixture right throughout the rpm band.

I feel his biggest issue is the ratio of w/m, washer fluid is not good enough and will not give gains. He mixed 50% water with 50% washer fluid, this means he was injecting mostly water, that is not going to do it

John
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:05 AM   #17
 
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I feel his biggest issue is the ratio of w/m, washer fluid is not good enough and will not give gains. He mixed 50% water with 50% washer fluid, this means he was injecting mostly water, that is not going to do it

John
Water injection's main benefit should be from the in-cylinder cooling from the vaporization. That's why you can run straight water and see a gain if you're already at or above knock threshold.
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:55 PM   #18
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well i fixed the mix, im using 60%meth now and nothing has changed. like mike said im going for mostly cooling. like i said before the pump is turned down.
and about boost leaking, why doesnt it happen in anyother gear. its just like heat soak, 3ed is great 4th is ok and 5th drops. im going to do a few runs without the system on and see how it goes and then turn it back on.
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:08 PM   #19
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just got an email back from one of the techs at snow, he said my mix will have nothing to do with my setup because i do not have my timming changed for the meth. he told i could run 100% water and see more boost longer. the water is for cooling and the meth is for timming. so now im really lost to how im lossing boost.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:45 PM   #20
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ok, i switched out the bpc and nothing.
i think im getting heat soak. i wonder if the air temp. sensor could have gone bad?
where do you think i should start to try and fix this?
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