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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 12-17-2004, 05:07 AM   #1
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9-3 Questions

I'm on the Hybrid Electric Vehicle Team at Virginia Tech and we're going to be using a 2001 2.0L HPT 9-3 engine in our vehicle this year. Our plan is to modify the engine to run on E85 rather than gasoline, thereby decreasing our reliance on petroleum products to run the vehicle. Anyways, we already have the front clip from a 2001 9-3 sitting in our work bay with the engine and transmission removed.

Some of the questions we have (as we have no Saab owners on the team) are as follows:
-What are the differences between the LPT and HPT 2.0L engines?
-Is there some trick to separating the engine and transmission (we wrestled with both for at least 2 hours and only got the transmission separated 2 inches)?
-Does anyone have dyno plots for a stock or very close to stock 2.0L turbo engine (LPT or HPT)?

I'll probably have a bunch of questions later, but for now this is it. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-17-2004, 05:17 AM   #2
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LPT & HPT just comes down to which puts out more boost and having different hardware, turbos, IC's, etc.... someone else can comment more on this

someone who has actually taken a tranny off can comment about its removal

since you have a 2.0L HPT, saab rates the motor at 205bhp (these cars seem to be heavily underrated at the factory)....i am guessing you will have approximately 175-180 whp....i don't have any dyno charts on hand to support this, many other people here have dyno charts and will be able to provide further information.

hope this helps
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:04 AM   #3
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LPT and HOT have different intercoolers, turbos, and software, IIRC.

The LPT has the intercooler that goes in and out on the same side, while the HOT uses a crossflow style that enters on one side and exits on the other.

The turbo is bigger on the HOT model and the software (trionic 7) is optimized for more power and adjusts for varying conditions to always be able to put out the same amount of power regardless of temp, humidity, gasonline, boost, intake airmass, etc. etc. etc....

there are some real techie people here who can tell you more than you ever wanted to know. read around the posts and you will find lots of info!


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1990 900 turbo vert
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:59 AM   #4
 
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Welcome, Hokies...

The 9-3 T (High Output Turbo) uses a Mitsubishi TD04HL-15T turbo, if you're looking for compression maps for the specific unit. The 185-hp little "t" low-pressure turbo is a Garrett, a T-17 or T25 (I don't know the specific model for this one; can anyone else help out?)

You might want to check with some of the hardcore Swedish Saab tuners (www.sqr.se, www.nordictuning.com, www.maptun.se) about octane requirements and engine management. I know E85 can be formulated to have octane ratings in the low 100s, but I'm not sure how adaptable the T7 software is (assuming you're going to retain the same engine management.) Some of the Swedes use race gas in competition (Frank Stromqvist at SQR definitely does....) so they're probably a lot more attuned to the particular tweaks needed to extract maximum HP safely. At 93 or 94 octane, that B205R engine nearly always dynos as much as 5-10 notches higher than the expected 205 hp.

The tranny separation is always a joy -- insert massive sarcasm here -- but you need to brace the engine from the top to support the weight, leaving the tranny free to pull out and slightly down. (You don't say whether you have a manual or auto.) If you have a manual, remember to lock the shift level in 4th and to do the same with the tranny. Don't try to remove the engine from the top. It's doable, but an incredible pain. Munki on SaabCentral has a great illustrated post that I used: http://www.saabcentral.com/~munki/te...ansmission.htm

You'll need an overhead engine support beam or cherry picker, at least two floor jacks or a tranny jack, and lots of patience.

What I'd really like to see is a Saab turbodiesel running solely on bio diesel or recycled vegetable oil. Cleaner than E85, can use almost any veggie oil, even waste oil from fast food joints....
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:17 AM   #5
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What exactly is E85?
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:29 AM   #6
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I'd like a hemp seed oil powered Saab, kind like the hempcar mercedes-benz wagon. as long as it still goes fast.
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:09 PM   #7
 
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Tweek, E85 is a fuel of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. It's cleaner burning than regular gas, and has better octane than most gas, but I think there used to be some issues with the ethanol eating hoses and whatnot....

That's probably been fixed by now, tho....

Ethanol makes funny cars go, and makes you funny when you drink beer...
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders
Ethanol makes funny cars go, and makes you funny when you drink beer...
Correction, makes you think you're funny when you drink beer......
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:41 PM   #9
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FYI: SAAB has just released a new model of the 9-5 which has been modified for running on E85. They had to make a small tweak to the Trionic and change all fuel line parts including pump and stuff as E85 is somewhat aggressive to some materials. The new model runs on any mixture of Ethanol, from 0 up to 85 (and probably even more).

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/bil/st...565785,00.html

Not that you understand Swedish, but hey
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Old 01-18-2005, 07:36 AM   #10
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Whew! We just gave the transmission a second try after our winter break, and we were able to separate everything. The trick to getting everything separated was to pull up on the transmission while having two people pull both sides of the bellhousing away from the engine.

Thanks for the writeup on removing the transmission, but since we already pulled the drivetrain from the car, most of that didn't apply to us. Had I found that site earlier we might have just pulled the transmission off first before pulling everything else out of the engine compartment.

We'll inevitably have more questions about the engine and transmission, but we'll just start other threads as the questions roll in.

Thanks for all the help.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:15 PM   #11
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I don't know why, but I just saw this thread.

To clear some things up... the engine you currently have is equipped with the Garrett T25 (LPT) turbo. Your engine is also considered a T5 because is uses a red Direct Ignition cassette. Other cars that carried the T5 model engines are 94-98 NG900's. Of course in 1996 and on, the engine software was OBD II compliant whereas pre 96 was OBD I.

This may help in narrowing down searches.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:32 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaque_Out
I don't know why, but I just saw this thread.

To clear some things up... the engine you currently have is equipped with the Garrett T25 (LPT) turbo. Your engine is also considered a T5 because is uses a red Direct Ignition cassette. Other cars that carried the T5 model engines are 94-98 NG900's. Of course in 1996 and on, the engine software was OBD II compliant whereas pre 96 was OBD I.

This may help in narrowing down searches.
Ced, did you see this?

Quote:
Anyways, we already have the front clip from a 2001 9-3 sitting in our work bay with the engine and transmission removed.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:42 PM   #13
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Well shit.. i'm confused then

He just posted a picture of...

Ohhh thats the wrong DI. Scratch the BS I just said then. That explains the newer throttle body, T7 delivery pipe and why it says "Ecopower" on the valve cover
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:55 AM   #14
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Just put E85 in the tank.... the saab ecu adjusts all parametres and it will run... no problem actually.. =)
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1/8mile = 8,807sec @ 87,1mph
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Old 01-31-2005, 03:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9-3 Mike
Just put E85 in the tank.... the saab ecu adjusts all parametres and it will run... no problem actually.. =)
Are you serious about this? That would greatly simplify our list of tasks for this year. We wouldn't expect it to run the way the E85 engine runs, but running at least well would be good enough for us.

As for the DI cassette, the engine was somewhat stripped when we originally visited the salvage yard, so there were some extra pieces that were taken off other cars and put on this one. The turbocharger had "99" written on it, making us think that the turbocharger also came from a 1999, in which case it might be the wrong turbocharger.

We take it the Garrett turbocharger is identified by the separate bypass valve and the Mitsubishi turbocharger is identified by the integrated bypass valve on the compressor housing? Some of us have seen this difference on some of the turbochargers we've seen.
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:07 PM   #16
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no there is no integrated valve on either.. there is however a waste gate actuator.. the turbo that u have should run fine i am sure for your purposes
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