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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 02-13-2008, 06:20 AM   #1
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wtb 9-3 t7 delivery pipe

I need a delivery pipe for my t7 9-3 because I broke mine (long story) I need the plastic pipe that goes from the throttle to the intercooler hose. I need this as soon as possible

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Old 02-13-2008, 06:21 AM   #2
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t7 delivery pipe?

is there any place where I can get an aftermarket delivery pipe for t7 9-3?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:24 AM   #3
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Any particular reason you need one?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:31 AM   #4
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are you going to keep the same size and just make a metal one ? or are you going to make it bigger?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:35 AM   #5
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You dont need an aftermarket pipe until 400hp
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:36 AM   #6
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http://www.eeuroparts.com/productdet...ts=1&code=8524

This the one??
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeGiT SaaB View Post
You dont need an aftermarket pipe until 400hp
Pretty much.

The stock plastic pipe retains much less heat than a metal one would, and it's not going to be the restrictive part of the intake system until you've got a whole lot of other work done.

However, a plastic pipe is not nearly as blinging as a polished metal pipe
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:59 AM   #8
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I broke my plastic one so I need a new one and I was thinking, why not get an upgraded one?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:24 AM   #9
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Oh. Well you won't really be getting any performance gain from an "upgraded" one, so it would probably be better/cheaper to just get an OEM replacement.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:18 AM   #10
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I have one from a 2000 9-3 SE, that one from eeuroparts looks slightly different. You probably already ordered one, but if not make an offer. I'm in CT
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:21 AM   #11
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Just out of curiosity.... how did you break your delivery pipe?
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:27 AM   #12
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You can always put a T5 pipe there if you wish, just dont buy the TB bend because it wont fit. Insted use a 90deg silicone coupler (2.5"). Depending on the model of your car you need to do a few small modifications to the T7 pipe to fit the combination MAP/MAT sensor (located above the BPV), if you dont have the combo sensor then you need to make a connection for the second MAP's hose and a thread connection for the MAT. I currently have a T7 pipe in my "T5" car.

All show, but no extra GO is what you get
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:35 PM   #13
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I just don't buy that. There has to be a diference, even if its small. For one thing you only did half you're delivery pipe, right?

I went ahead and went 2.5" from turbo to ic and ic to 2.5" tb elbow.

Why would everyone in the world make 2.5" and 3" delivery pipes and all of them report smooth power transition and more top end?

Put it on the dyno with it back to stock and then put the full length 2.5" delivery pipe on the car with at least a 2.5" tb elbow and see what you get in real numbers. Make sure you are 2.5" from ic to tb, not 2" for part of it and 2.5" for the other part of it, that makes no sense to me. You will only flow as well as you're smallest point or restriction. If its 2", then there is no reason to go bigger than 2", if its 2.5", like my car, then 2.5" will help.

Its a small change and 5-10bhp is not going to be felt on a 440whp car.

It might show a differnce in the torque curve, it moved mine up a couple of hundred rpm... I won't believe it until I see a before and after on the dyno.

John
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:00 AM   #14
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I just don't buy that. There has to be a diference, even if its small. For one thing you only did half you're delivery pipe, right?
So in other words to move from 2.5" to a full 3" would make a performance gain and difference? If you answer no, think again maybe the 2" is big enough.
I currently have the delivery pipe and the TB bend from 2.5" as discussed earlier,when the TB bend was the most "restrictive part", but all the sudden it whole 2.5" you need. 95% of the people do not have the IC to deli made from 2.5" piping and most of the deli pipes have reducer cones at the end of them to make it possible to fit to the std 2" hose.
Since this now has become an issue I will fab the IC to delivery section as well even though I will test the "normal" type installation at first when conditions allow.
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Why would everyone in the world make 2.5" and 3" delivery pipes and all of them report smooth power transition and more top end?
again you complete fail to understnad the HW is not all that matters, there is SW, ie boost control which plays a role in the equation and a big one endeed. If I wish I can put a 5" pipe on my car and still have "un-smooth" power if I map the boost that way, but is it the pipes fault or mapping? Maybe try 6" next to smooth it out Like I have posted several times the power delivery in my car is as smooth as it gets and I dont need any "mechanical dampers in the equation" to do it for me. Maybe you should also start from the SW the next time and after you have found it limits in terms of "smooth" power delivery then you can move to HW if not possible

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Put it on the dyno with it back to stock and then put the full length 2.5" delivery pipe on the car with at least a 2.5" tb elbow and see what you get in real numbers. Make sure you are 2.5" from ic to tb, not 2" for part of it and 2.5" for the other part of it, that makes no sense to me. You will only flow as well as you're smallest point or restriction. If its 2", then there is no reason to go bigger than 2", if its 2.5", like my car, then 2.5" will help.
If the accelation on the road does not change why would one be interested to see what a dyno reads? All go no toilet paper show for me
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Its a small change and 5-10bhp is not going to be felt on a 440whp car.
so if you put the deli pipe to a stage III car you net 15bhp, but only 5-10 if you make twice the power? This equation does not add up the "big restrictive" pipe does not free "any" bhp at 400+whp but make a ton of a change on std cars?
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It might show a differnce in the torque curve, it moved mine up a couple of hundred rpm... I won't believe it until I see a before and after on the dyno.

John
the difference it makes to torque can be read from accelration and there is no need to put the car on a dyno.

As a side note, you have a logger and you have a full 2.5" piping, maybe you should run a few test on you own and please dont forget the post the results here whrere you can see if the boost curve is alterered (it the part you can deal with SW, not HW)
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:57 PM   #15
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If you have a large enough turbo, a 3" might do a little better. Basically it needs to be as large as you're tb is or maybe a hair larger to get the venturi effect.

I don't know why companies sell half the delivery pipe. Its not all of a sudden, I have been a believer in full 2.5" since the beginning and that is why I fabbed up a complete 2.5" system and made my ic 2.5" as well. I went 2.5" from turbo to ic and ic to tb.

At some point, the velocity will go down and bigger is not always better, we all know that, my feeling is it should be about the same size as the tb opening or a hair larger. If I have a 65mm tb, the delivery pipe should be at least 65mm, if not 70mm and then it also needs a large enough turbo to fill and flow through that pipe. The stock pipe and tb transistion is not ideal, it has too many bends and I guarantee you my mandrel bent pipe that has 2 less 90* angles flows better than the ones you made and the stock one.

All racers know this and its a part of the theory: Least amount of angle and bends and the shortest distance will give the best results.

There is no way around it and even if you're data logger is not reporting any gains, they are still there, its just hard to measure it the way you are testing.

Does that mean if you can't data log any hp gains that its not worth doing? Some would say yes, I say no and do every thing to help flow and reduce restirctions and bad angles that slow the air down.

All the little stuff adds up and makes a bigger picture. You flow the head and get a little, you flow the intake and get a little, you flow the exhaust manifold and get a little, you flow the turbine housing and get a little, you flow the delivery pipe and get a little and before you know it, you're car is spooling up faster and making more torque and maybe a hair more peak bhp.

The reason I said dyno was so that I can see a power and torque curve and that would be a good way to show the difference, if any, in the way the car makes power.

The gains may be small, but when you put all the small changes together, you begin to see and feel the difference...

John
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:39 AM   #16
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There is no way around it and even if you're data logger is not reporting any gains, they are still there, its just hard to measure it the way you are testing.
gains exists but they dont alter any parameters could elaborate this statemet further since I really cant get to the bottom what you mean by this. The only way I see this statement to be valid is if you write "gains are so small and irrelevant that they cannot be measured".
If a gain takes place the first thing you will se it on is the AFR curve becoming leaner if you run a speed density system while keeping the MAT and MAP the same. If this does not happen no more air did find its way into the engine as it did before with the orig pipe.
Later if you wish to study the affect to spool it quit easy to overlay the curves on top of each other and if there a difference in boost climb rate, if not then that area was not affected either.
With the help of the throttle plate singnal and rpm/speed you can see how the trasion from N/A to boost happens and if curves overlay perfectly that did not change either.
Then you have the accelration curve with will tell you how smooth the power comes one and if it remains the same that area was not affected either.

So with this in mind how do we end up in a situation that gains exists but they cannot be measured....
Quote:
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Does that mean if you can't data log any hp gains that its not worth doing? Some would say yes, I say no and do every thing to help flow and reduce restirctions and bad angles that slow the air down.

All the little stuff adds up and makes a bigger picture. You flow the head and get a little, you flow the intake and get a little, you flow the exhaust manifold and get a little, you flow the turbine housing and get a little, you flow the delivery pipe and get a little and before you know it, you're car is spooling up faster and making more torque and maybe a hair more peak bhp.
pretty much all of the items you list besides the delipipe do alter parameters and improve the perfomance and eventually the pipe also when the air quantity gets high enough, but as said i'am more than worried I have not reached it yet.


Quote:
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The gains may be small, but when you put all the small changes together, you begin to see and feel the difference...

John

With my logic when you have have the river of Colorado already feeding the Hoover Dam, it does not increase the flow thorugh the dam even if you swap the Dam to be in the middle of the Great Amazon river if you do not heavily incrase the flow through the dam it self , since the river if supplying more than what is needed. The dam in this case would be the parts between TB and DP.

But as a remainder this whole delivery pipe need topic originates to cars pushing 300bhp, not 600+ bhp to where this conversation is now heading. AFAIK the pipe was supposed to be essential for any car pushing more than 250bhp and the gains are noticeble both in spool, power delivery, torque and top end power, but now all the sudden all this has been forgotten and the only gain seems see its daylight when you're pushing twice that power.

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Old 02-16-2008, 09:13 AM   #17
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Yes, that is what I meant, the gains may be too small to measure. There is talk on the other forum right now about how putting a larger dp on the car will rob low end torque. Someone suggested its the "smooth power" that makes it feel like you have lost torque, but in reality, you have gained torque.

This was the exact same feel when I put a large delivery pipe on my ng900 at a fairly stock level and the same feeling I got on my 9k aero that is about the same, stock turbo, stage 3 sw.

When you go to design the piping, you try and make it the shortest distance and with the least amount of angles and the least amount of degress in those angles. Can you measure the difference? Even if you cannot measure them, I would still do it the "right way" in hopes that at some point in the power curve, there is a measurable difference.

What I am saying is maybe you need to measure the flow and pressures and velocity to see if any gains are there and not power and torque that is limited by you're sw. Like you said, you limit you're torque, so how do you know if its making the same torque with a little less work from the turbo?

You have to be careful when you measure things, you must measure one point at a time and you must measure in reverse and you must measure under the same conditions to get more accurate results.

Maybe you have you're car mapped so that the gains are not measurable.

Like I said, I will still follow flow dynamics and try and make my piping as short as possible and with as few bends as possible. My pipe is different in shape and distance than you'res.

John
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:21 AM   #18
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Hey John, is that a dryer vent you're running there?
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:45 AM   #19
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I do seem to get a few comments like that every now and then

Its the insulation thermo wrap, insulated tape wrap. Thermo King or something that is supposed to keep the cool in and the heat out

Designed to insulate heating and cooling piping.

John
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