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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 12-23-2007, 06:37 PM   #1
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is this correct?!

aero93 installed a helper spring on the wastegate and was wondering if he did it right? here are some pictorials


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Old 12-23-2007, 07:09 PM   #2
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9 views and no one has the slightest clue if this is right or wrong......
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Old 12-23-2007, 07:14 PM   #3
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Looks good and right to me.



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Old 12-23-2007, 07:18 PM   #4
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okay thats great ! thanks
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Old 12-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #5
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I second that it 'looks' as if it would be effective and 'right'. I've never installed one, nor read much about it so I'm not an expert on the subject. I suspect others were holding out for the same reason.

Was there a more specific question or problem with it?
Does it work?

Hey... Nice oil and coolant lines too btw... where did he source those?
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Old 12-23-2007, 08:49 PM   #6
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You'll know if its right or not by checking the base boost with a gauge!
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Old 12-23-2007, 08:53 PM   #7
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9 views?


Someones getting jumpy!


It looks right, but in my eyes a spring like that is a band-aid.
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Old 12-23-2007, 08:57 PM   #8
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If it's "right" is up to you to check... check the before and after base boost. if it's what you are shooting for then it's right. If it's still too low, you need it to be tighter. This should be pretty simple here!
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:12 AM   #9
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i never unederstood why some ecu's need this, and you cant just adjust your base boost higher.



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Old 12-24-2007, 06:40 AM   #10
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does it work??? if it does, than its right (enough)
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
i never unederstood why some ecu's need this, and you cant just adjust your base boost higher.
Its because of the limitations on the wastegate itself. There are many ways to put in a helper spring. It "looks" like a perfect way to do it, but its going to come down the to the spring resistance itself. When I did mine, I had a lot bigger spring strung from the wastegate to the upper left radiator support, it was huge and worked really well. Some of those smaller ones like that just dont offer the necessary resistance without being stretched to their max. Give it a go and see.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:39 AM   #12
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well its only one or two tuners that use them and 1 or 2 dont thats what i dont get since they make the same power.



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Old 12-24-2007, 01:10 PM   #13
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You're going to have to check your base boost, you're probably shooting for around 12psi or such baseboost. With my stage 5, my waste gate was too tired to handle the amount of exhaust gas the engine was flowing at high rpms and the pressures of it all, so it was forcing the wastegate open when it wasn't supposed to be opening. I used a clutch return spring set up basically the same was you did yours.

Take care,
-Chad
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:31 PM   #14
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need to get that turbo ported/polished, and upgrade that wastegate bro
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:52 PM   #15
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whats the upgrade? i thought the only upgrade was external wastegate and gs says that their forge wg isnt an upgrade just a nice looking replacement
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:31 PM   #16
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well its only one or two tuners that use them and 1 or 2 dont thats what i dont get since they make the same power.
It has nothing to do with the tunes, it has to do with the hardware, and getting the correct base boost. There are people who realize that this can be done in a method cheaper than buying: buying a forge acuator, taking apart the stock actuator, shortening the WG rod so much that you'll get boost creep.

And since one of these tuners is "copying/stealing" software as everyone has suggested (cough, sneeze, etc) it should be a moot point, right? Yeah.
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:50 PM   #17
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wow ok, it was a simple question since on 3 different tunes, including my 18t ive just had to adjust the rod, and had no issues.

stage 4 i ran 7psi and 18t i ran 9-10psi to help spool. never needed a spring, and that wastegate had 120k miles on it, and was rusted to hell.



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Old 12-24-2007, 03:56 PM   #18
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I'm just dishing out a holiday helping of crap

No really though, I have had issues with T25 WGAs on multiple occasions. They just are not as robust as the MHI units.

I don't have any idea if jak recommends a WG helper for MHI turbos, or what, but I have had zero issues with mine running either a BPC or a MBC on my TD04, but on my old T25 I would blow the wastegate open at 15psi no matter what. I think the helper is just a way to get around that happening.
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:42 AM   #19
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those lines were custom made at a local shop called shako...
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
i never unederstood why some ecu's need this, and you cant just adjust your base boost higher.
This issue is if you just shorten you're rod to achieve a higher base boost, you have also decresed the travel of the arm and that means the waste-gate can no longer go wide open if needed to save you're motor.

When you use a helper spring, you can get the higher base boost that you want to increase the boost and also keep the full travel of the waste-gate.

I personally had trouble with my waste-gate blowing open at 4500rpm with stock t25 actuator. I needed the helper spring to keep this from happening. I installed a helper spring to keep it from blowing open and to increase my boost a little bit. You're base boost directly effects how much boost you will spike to and hold.

With my gt3071 with 10psi of base boost I will spike to 25psi and hold 22psi to redline. With 14psi of base boost, I will spike to 28psi and hold 25psi to redline.

You have to be carfull though, with a stage 3 and helper spring, its possible to increase you're base boost too much and then the ecu is no longer in charge and you can get knox. I found 7-8psi to be about right for stage 3-5 and 9-10psi to be too much and it was dangerous and I went back down to 8psi with the helper spring. The helper spring is adjustable and it never changes the travel!

That set-up looks right, adjust it so that you're base boost is where you want it and you can shorten or lengthen the spring or bracket to achieve the right amount of base boost.

John
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