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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 12-11-2007, 01:50 PM   #1
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Need advice on a 400hp project =)

Okay guys, So I'm running a 2002 Saab 9-3 SE with the following upgrades:

-3" dp w/race cat(GS)
-Forge Intercooler
-Koni sport blue springs
-Turbo intake pipe(GS)
-Open-air intake(GS)
-Stg. 3 Maptun ECU
-Viggen Clutch Kit(GS)
-Aluminum Flywheel(Spec)

As you already read I am wanting the car to get close if not up to 400hp, I' kind of lost as of now on wat upgrades to do next. Eeventually I wiwll need to get a turbo upgrade(probably buy a kit from Maptun, since I don't know where else), and get a camshaft upgrade. But until i get the money for the turbo upgrade(about $6550 everything) what should I be doing with my car in the mean time? Any help will be most helpful!
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:58 PM   #2
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But until i get the money for the turbo upgrade(about $6550 everything) what should I be doing with my car in the mean time? Any help will be most helpful!
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by swedish_02 View Post
Okay guys, So I'm running a 2002 Saab 9-3 SE with the following upgrades:

-3" dp w/race cat(GS)
-Forge Intercooler
-Koni sport blue springs
-Turbo intake pipe(GS)
-Open-air intake(GS)
-Stg. 3 Maptun ECU
-Viggen Clutch Kit(GS)
-Aluminum Flywheel(Spec)

As you already read I am wanting the car to get close if not up to 400hp, I' kind of lost as of now on wat upgrades to do next. Eeventually I wiwll need to get a turbo upgrade(probably buy a kit from Maptun, since I don't know where else), and get a camshaft upgrade. But until i get the money for the turbo upgrade(about $6550 everything) what should I be doing with my car in the mean time? Any help will be most helpful!

Hi,

You've got a bunch of the necessary mods already, but what you will be needing is the following:

- Wössner (or JE, which I believe is available quite cheap from GS) forged pistons
- Upgraded camshafts (T5 camshafts, from any 94-98 9000 turbo or 94-99 NG900/9-3 turbo w/ Trionic 5, will do together with your current head)
- Larger injectors (I'd recommend 630 cc Siemens Deka, but check with e.g Maptun, or whoever you plan to buy software from)
- Larger fuel pump, e.g. Walbro341 (255LPH)
- Larger turbo, e.g. Garrett GT2871R (0,64 A/R turbine for spool-up on your 2,0), which you can get from www.atpturbo.com. You'll need silicone hoses etc for install as well of course
- Larger inlet pipe (either a custom one, available from Maptun and probably from GS as well, or use a "King Cobra" from a MY06- 9-5 Aero and cut it at appropriate length)
- Uprated clutch, e.g. SPEC special disc (6-puck sinter disc) which will work with your current Viggen pressure plate

That's about it. I would, however, recommend checking your "recipe" with your tuner of choice, to make sure they have suitable software ready for that configuration. If not, you might be better off adjusting your recipe slightly to get a better match.

Best regards,

KK
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:09 PM   #4
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You're in Texas... Maptun is in Sweden.

Why not go with a US based tuner?

Nordic - www.genuinesaab.com
JSP - www.jakstollperformance.com
SQR - www.automotion-saabvolvo.com


EDIT: there are several of us here in MN that have 400hp in our sights. We're playing around with Holset turbos. For my 1997 900 SE, I'll probably be going with a Holset HX35 or equivalent, custom header from BoostFactory, and get it tuned by Nick from GenuineSaab (the US Nordic distributor)
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:10 PM   #5
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will I be able to use T5 cams, even though i'm T7? and could I just buy the cams now and throw them on or what? BTW, thank you very much for all the helpful info! It feels a lot better to kind of have a plan to work with!
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:23 PM   #6
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With all the suggested parts listed above, would I have to run them all together? Or could I buy and install them as I get the money?
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:54 PM   #7
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With all the suggested parts listed above, would I have to run them all together? Or could I buy and install them as I get the money?
Hi,

You should install hardware and software at the same time.

As for your question about cams, yes you can use T5 camshafts in your T7 head. You shouldn't install them without having a corresponding software.

Best regards,

KK
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:56 PM   #8
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You're in Texas... Maptun is in Sweden.

Why not go with a US based tuner?

Nordic - www.genuinesaab.com
JSP - www.jakstollperformance.com
SQR - www.automotion-saabvolvo.com
Hi,

Personally I'd go with a mailbox tune from a good tuner over a "custom tune" from a less experienced one any day of the week.

If, however, you can get a good tuner to make a custom software, that's of course ideal. Frank has unfortunately shut down SQR, otherwise the option of having him custom tune T7 was excellent.

Ask "Vigge" about his custom tuning experience...

Best regards,

KK
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:59 PM   #9
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Hi,

Personally I'd go with a mailbox tune from a good tuner over a "custom tune" from a less experienced one any day of the week.

If, however, you can get a good tuner to make a custom software, that's of course ideal. Frank has unfortunately shut down SQR, otherwise the option of having him custom tune T7 was excellent.

Ask "Vigge" about his custom tuning experience...

Best regards,

KK
KK we do have a few decent tuners in the US for custom tunes that could do him much better than a mailbox tune from sweden. I have experience with both and deff. will never do another stock ECU upgrade again.

Isnt Frank going to still be tuning with trollspeed?
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:23 PM   #10
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KK we do have a few decent tuners in the US for custom tunes that could do him much better than a mailbox tune from sweden. I have experience with both and deff. will never do another stock ECU upgrade again.

Isnt Frank going to still be tuning with trollspeed?
Well, I agree that a good custom tune is significantly better. I'm just very hesitant to let "anyone" custom tune my cars, and have in fact grown increasingly hesitant over the years. I've tried both "stage tunes" and a huge number of custom tunes in both a couple of 9000 Aeros, a 9-5 Aero and my current 9-5 BioPower.

Admittedly, T5 tuning is quite a bit easier, if not to say "not even the same sport as T7", so for T5 tuning I would be less worried. For more advanced tuning of a T7 car, I have less than a handful people worldwide that I would even consider. One is in Switzerland, the others are in Sweden.

What I think I'm trying to convey is that I'm very very picky, and when it comes to tuning I'm also more conservative nowadays, probably because I've both seen and experienced more, both in terms of good and bad tuning. That's why, with a car full of expensive hardware, I'd prefer a good solid conservative (of course fully matched with the hardware) mailbox tune. With the available datalogging tools, it's easy to gather and transmit data to your tuner, and have necessary adjustments made to get the car more dialed in.

A proper custom tune will, at least in my experience, and to be able to meet my demands, take weeks (or often months) of testing, rolling road remapping, testing, measuring, remappning and so on. A good custom tune can NOT be done in a day! My car has somewhere around 100 hours of dyno tuning time on it, but then again it is by all proper standards 99,9% like a factory car in terms of driveability etc. I've driven several "custom tuned cars" that surely "run well", in the sense that they have a serious kick in the butt when you floor the throttle, but in many other driving situations they are very far off. Erratic idle, dropping revs when coasting, excessive fuel consumption, abrupt and aggressive boost build-up, twitching on boost etc etc. These are all negative side effects of "improper" or perhaps just "pressed-for-time" custom tunes. Many people either don't notice or think it "goes with the territory" when tuning cars above 350 or 400 hp or so. I know that's not the case.

Best regards,

KK
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:44 PM   #11
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My car drives great down low... my tuner couldnt believe how smooth it can idle, drive normally, and become a monster when you hit the throttle. Its not T5 though or T7. I agree the best tuners are in sweden... I have seen the stuff they can do over there but being in the US we have to have our own options.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:59 PM   #12
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Hi,

Personally I'd go with a mailbox tune from a good tuner over a "custom tune" from a less experienced one any day of the week.

If, however, you can get a good tuner to make a custom software, that's of course ideal. Frank has unfortunately shut down SQR, otherwise the option of having him custom tune T7 was excellent.

Ask "Vigge" about his custom tuning experience...

Best regards,

KK

Frank has merged with trollspeed and is now working on and tuning some serious race engines (ie. pikes peak viggen). the sqr name and product is alive and well in the usa through automotion in billerica.
looks like its about time to step up the hp a bit on the 9-5 monster with some new trollspeed hardware.

dave

Last edited by daveship; 12-12-2007 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:06 PM   #13
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KKAero, the forged pistons from GS are for the 9-5 model. Would they work for my '02 9-3? I'm looking for some, Maptun has them but are very expensive, any ideas???
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:07 PM   #14
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(T5 camshafts, from any 94-98 9000 turbo or 94-99 NG900/9-3 turbo w/ Trionic 5, will do together with your current head)

so t5 cams will work on a t7 head? what happens when you do this?
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:36 PM   #15
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Oops sorry, I meant this turbo

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=GRT

will this one fit my stock manifold????
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:46 PM   #16
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Frank has purchased trollspeed and is now working on and tuning some serious race engines (ie. pikes peak viggen). the sqr name and product is alive and well in the usa through automotion in billerica.
looks like its about time to step up the hp a bit on the 9-5 monster with some new trollspeed hardware.

dave
troof...he stepped his game up.

and yes anything with a t25 flange will fit the stock manifold, its the ehaust outlet that usually requires a new top to your dp.



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Old 12-11-2007, 04:49 PM   #17
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Do you know if i will need a new one? Or how do I find out?
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:22 PM   #18
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Ask "Vigge" about his custom tuning experience...

Best regards,

KK
Since it was asked, here is the complete story
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/report.doc
and yes the car perfectly heathy at the time and the car currently runs with the same engine even now a days and pretty much the same HW.
And no, I'am not financially tied to any tuner this was the outcome of my case...

sorry the viggen.mine.nu is down at the moment, so pretty much all of the liks within that report dont work.

so to keep it short a mailbox from company X did work better than a product from company Y after two custom tunes. Unfortunately my car is not the only one from which a similar report could have been written of, but at the same time I'm sad to state that far to few people actually know "how well the tune" actually works.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:31 PM   #19
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Since it was asked, here is the complete story
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/report.doc
and yes the car perfectly heathy at the time and the car currently runs with the same engine even now a days and pretty much the same HW.
And no, I'am not financially tied to any tuner this was the outcome of my case...

sorry the viggen.mine.nu is down at the moment, so pretty much all of the liks within that report dont work.

so to keep it short a mailbox from company X did work better than a product from company Y after two custom tunes. Unfortunately my car is not the only one from which a similar report could have been written of, but at the same time I'm sad to state that far to few people actually know "how well the tune" actually works.
Would you say though, that mailbox tunes are only viable if you follow a strict set of "staged hardware" upgrades?

Those of us here who are playing with the holset turbos don't really have much options in respect to mailbox tunes, as far as I know.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:41 PM   #20
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Would you say though, that mailbox tunes are only viable if you follow a strict set of "staged hardware" upgrades?

Those of us here who are playing with the holset turbos don't really have much options in respect to mailbox tunes, as far as I know.
Nope, I dont recall on saying stick to staged HW and as for example my car has alwyas been and is far from that. However keep in mind though that the SW can only be made/corrected based on input (measured results) and if non exists a tuner cant really do much.
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