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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 10-20-2007, 09:22 PM   #1
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Boosting an NA?

What would be the best way to go about doing this? I dont want to sell mine and buy a turbo one. I want to convert my current NG900 and make it my own, also kind of a rolling resume. Does the stock motronic ECM have enough fuel map adjustability to cover boost if I were to add one or two auxiliary injectors to my inake manifold just below the throttle body? OR would I be better off converting it to a T5 ECM and wiring harness? From cruising around here Ive gathered that the T5 is much more forgiving, and a bit less costly to modify... and I'll admit that I do enjoy the BOV noise . If going the T5 route, what other vehicle systems would need to be changed? I do want to do this on my 2.3. So without getting into the engine innards YET, what kind of boost could it handle safely? Last few questions, but these are body related. Would I need to put on a 9-3 front bumper to clear a FMIC or will my current one allow?
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:14 AM   #2
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Best way?

Save your $ and buy a car thats already got a turbo on it.
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Old 10-21-2007, 01:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowley View Post
Best way?

Save your $ and buy a car thats already got a turbo on it.
x2
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:12 AM   #4
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Quote:
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What would be the best way to go about doing this? I dont want to sell mine and buy a turbo one.
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Best way?

Save your $ and buy a car thats already got a turbo on it.
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x2
^Very helpful

So, to offer some real advice if you really want to slap a turbo on it (which is probably going to be less cost effective than selling the N/A and buying a car with a turbo already on it), is find every bit of plumbing and the exhaust manifold off of a junkyard car.

Essentially unbolt the stuff from a turbo car and bolt it onto yours. You might run into issues with oil and coolant feeds for the turbocharger, but if you're creative there are ways around those things.

It should be straight forward to bolt the stuff down. Next you'll have to worry about getting the car running well with boost. Ignition and fueling will be very important. You can probably keep motronic, but you will need to find someone to tune it to your car, and you will most certainly need to find injectors from a trionic 5 turbochargers ng900 or T-5 9-3, or 1994-1998 9000 turbo.

As far as how much boost is same to run...that would require monitoring knock. With the higher compression N/A motor you won't be able to run too much boost without ventilating pistons and/or blowing through head gaskets.

If this car is your daily driver and only mode of transportation I would highly suggest not doing this. It will likely take a lot of work with the tuning and trouble shooting to get it running well and safely.

I vote: Do it, and report back (as long as you have a different daily driver).
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:18 AM   #5
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Marty (moonracer on here) turbocharged a 2.1 N/A c900 that Tikka now has here on the board and its doing well.

I'll PM you here in a bit as I'm selling all my t25 related parts and this would get you in the right direction at least.



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Old 10-21-2007, 07:19 AM   #6
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Yea, it is my current daily. Its getting parked through the winter though and I'll be driving my old jimmy then. What do they use to program the computers on these cars? Thats the other thing, I did want to try and program it myself as EFI tuning is something that I do want to try and learn and become good with. I was going to build a MBC and go up like 2 psi at a time and progressively tune it in. Switching to the T5 injectors would cover the flow of the auxiliary injectors that I mentioned earlier? This winter Im pulling the head off of my car and having my instructor port it out for me. I havent seen the combustion chambers on these heads, how friendly would they be to being opened up to try and drop some compression that way? Im also looking at buying some new forged pistons with a lower CD to drop the compression, or maybe some with a deeper dish.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:25 AM   #7
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Check out ecuproject.com to find out more info on tuning the ecu for starters.

In the meantime just sent you a PM.



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Old 10-21-2007, 08:03 AM   #8
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I say keep in N/A and go the other route...


Raise the compression, get stiffer valve springs, mess with the timing, and try a few different cams.

That said, my 1983 8v turbo is pretty fun to zip around in.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:12 AM   #9
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That said, my 1983 8v turbo is pretty fun to zip around in.
And in case you don't know, this '83 900 Turbo that palmer speaks of was a NA, and I put a turbocharger on it, so it is similar to what mlemorie wants to do, but much older.

That being said, it took me several months to get the issues worked out on that car. I would not suggest doing this on a daily driver, it is probably more work than you could do in one weekend.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:54 AM   #10
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palmer has the way to go with. the motor itself wouldn't take much work at all to turbo. it's the electronics around it is where you may have trouble. there isn't much of anything out there for tuning the ECU, the closest I've heard of is by using a tuner for another car like a bmw and seeing how much it will play with.

now a high reving N/A motor would be the easier and more cost effective route i think. then just do the mix and match on cams and other parts and see what you end up with.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:49 PM   #11
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I say keep in N/A and go the other route...


Raise the compression, get stiffer valve springs, mess with the timing, and try a few different cams.

That said, my 1983 8v turbo is pretty fun to zip around in.
agree, ive always wanted to see a n/a build-up project.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:50 PM   #12
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I wish people would stop posting this question and someone would just do it. Perpetually talking does not solve my curiosity. If you wanna do it, then do it . There are a lot of threads on this subject.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:55 PM   #13
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I wish people would stop posting this question and someone would just do it. Perpetually talking does not solve my curiosity. If you wanna do it, then do it . There are a lot of threads on this subject.
It can be done easy on a NA C900. I have seen it done.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:57 PM   #14
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If he chooses to do it he has a PM from me with an offer for all my old t25 setup stuff since it fell through with my caviler buddy, he decided he didn't have the time or resources to complete the project. Mlemorie, you won't find a more complete package for this swap then what I offered you..... I also have my old downpipe back at home that if you go this route you can talk to me about. That would just leave you needing a turbo manifold, intake manifold assembly (throttle body, injectors, delivery pipe), ecu harness and ecu (if you switch to trionic), and the water and oil lines for the turbo along with the banjo bolts for the lines at the block.



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Old 10-21-2007, 02:09 PM   #15
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It can be done easy on a NA C900. I have seen it done.
This I know, but we're talking the naturally aspirated 2.3 here - aren't the compression ratios for the N/A C900 engine the same? This is typically what people worry about. From logic it seems like you're not going to be able to do much more than four or five pounds of boost - not unless you alter the compression ratio.

Either way, what I'm getting at is this topic's been posted a million times and no one ever does anything. I had a naturally aspirated NG900 too - if you want a snail, sell your car and get one that has one from the factory - otherwise you're just going to be miserable.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:00 PM   #16
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There have been people running more than 10 lbs of boost on the "high" compression c900 NA motors. If fueling is good, and ignition is timed well you might get away with that much boost and no knock.

And yes, someone DO THIS. I figure it wouldn't be too hard to tune the fueling. Lots of people tune motronic.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:03 PM   #17
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Yeah, I mean there has to be some sort of piggyback that can sense knock, and run fuel...


You have no DI on a N/A so it would be "easy"
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:32 PM   #18
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Yeah, I mean there has to be some sort of piggyback that can sense knock, and run fuel...


You have no DI on a N/A so it would be "easy"
I don't think you'd need a piggyback, just have motronic tuned for larger injectors. As far as knock sensing, there are plenty of ways to sense knock, they're not going to work with the ECU, but the driver can monitor it.

And yes, the lack of the DI factor in the ECU would make using MSD or some other aftermarket ignition a bit easier.

Like I said off the bat, this would be a lot of work to do right.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:04 PM   #19
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Nick's post is interesting...
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:12 PM   #20
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That is interesting.
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