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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-08-2007, 12:26 PM   #1
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MAP & Coolent Temp. Sensor questions...

Hello,

I've a few questions regarding the electrical outputs of both the MAP sensor in a '99 T5 9-3 as well as the coolant temp sensor, for various reasons I don't want to fully discuss yet.

I'm hoping to hear back from mr MBC or die (forget your username and too lazy to look up) in regards to MAP hacks (ala what resistor do you suggest, etc) + to see if you've any knowledge about how false temp data will affect fueling, in a given ratio of impediance or something of the like.

Sorry if this makes no sense, but I'm sure a few of you will get it. Any idea where to get a voltage chart for the MAP and coolant temp sensor?

Thanks in advance,
Bny
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:28 PM   #2
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search around, the chart has been posted. Ur gonna get hell for this from others though.
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:32 PM   #3
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search around, the chart has been posted. Ur gonna get hell for this from others though.
Ah, sorry, I didn't know someone had already posted the idea. I'll browse around here. As you can see, I never post on this forum, I'm quite familiar on saabcentral, however.

Hell as in 'you didn't look', or hell as in 'buy a chip, you retard'? I'm guessing the later.

Cheers,
Bny
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:34 PM   #4
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the later for sure. But search here and saabcentral someone has posted the values for the map sensor to allow different amounts of boost, etc.


Why the coolant temp sensor tho?
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:37 PM   #5
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the later for sure. But search here and saabcentral someone has posted the values for the map sensor to allow different amounts of boost, etc.


Why the coolant temp sensor tho?
Well, I've just rethunk things. Perhaps I should be looking at the air temp sensor, instead? Or a combination at least?

The MAP hack makes the MAP feed fueling for 15 PSI ish, right? (follow me, rough numbers). You run into the major possibility of leaning out, badly. The coolant temp sensor / air temp sensor are read, to make the car push more gas when the engine temps are cool...

I think you're catching on to my thoughts? But coolant sensor or air temp sensor, is the best to 'adjust'?

-Bny
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:41 PM   #6
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i gotcha, What are your goals/budget that you are trying to accomplish/meet?
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:50 PM   #7
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i gotcha, What are your goals/budget that you are trying to accomplish/meet?
Eventually, I'll end up at stage 3, with software.

Goals? It's an autobox, stage 3/4 with a larger T25/T28 rebuild or a mitsu TD04 with a torque limit in the chip for the autobox.

For now, it's been MBC+A'ed, a viggen intercooler, and suspension stuff. Nothing major enginewise.

For this project? I'm looking at cheap and more to suit curiousity. Maine dyno day is two weeks, so I was wondering if I can figure some resistors out and try them out on the dyno, to get rough AFR readings. There has to be a 'different' way to tune the beast, and while I realize that a ECU is the safe way, I'm sure there are other ways -- Just want to see what limits an MBC can SAFELY be taken to, with the consideration of air in/out and fueling.

More of a mental 'see what you can make it do' project.

You have to admit you're curious...

-Bny
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:50 PM   #8
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You'd use a diode (not a resistor) to bleed voltage off beyond whatever voltage level the MAP signal is set at to trigger fuel cut.

I don't know of anyone who has tried it on a Saab yet.

It's a little off from your train of thought but you might be able to add fuel a different way, like having a rising rate fuel pressure regular with a ball and spring valve set to 15+ psi so that it only starts to add fuel after 15psi.

Let us know what you come up with and Good luck!
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:58 PM   #9
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You can tune it with a SAFC or the like im sure, which you can pick up for like 150-200 and get a pretty reliable tune.
you're just gonna get made hate from people because its not as safe as trionic bla bla bla
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:02 PM   #10
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You'd use a diode (not a resistor) to bleed voltage off beyond whatever voltage level the MAP signal is set at to trigger fuel cut.

I don't know of anyone who has tried it on a Saab yet.

It's a little off from your train of thought but you might be able to add fuel a different way, like having a rising rate fuel pressure regular with a ball and spring valve set to 15+ psi so that it only starts to add fuel after 15psi.

Let us know what you come up with and Good luck!
Yes, I've thought of the RRFPR's but have heard they are oftentime's an absolute PITA to get running correctly? I've no personal experience. You're right, there are tons of different ways to push more fuel, I'm just trying to think of the best way overall, aside from plopping down $550 for a chip. It's not even the money factor, it's the 'I want to do it myself' factor that truly interests me. I was talking about this to some of the Maine guys LAST year and have yet to do anything. I'm getting ansy, now.

Anyone out there have direct 'fool the MAP' experience? I think someone does, I forget his name...

-Bny

PS thanks for the kind words above and the encouragement. I'm not one to listen to many naysayers. If it costs me an engine, then such is life?
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:07 PM   #11
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You can tune it with a SAFC or the like im sure, which you can pick up for like 150-200 and get a pretty reliable tune.
you're just gonna get made hate from people because its not as safe as trionic bla bla bla
Just read what a SAFC was (truly!) and it sounds like it requires a MAF sensor in order to do it's dirtywork. Unfortunately , although a 9-3, I run a '99 T5, ala no MAF sensor to be found. I've only got MAP & Air Intake Temp Sensor to account for my 'rate' of airflow. (Which I suppose is enough, Pressure + Density (temp!)).

I've to dig up some skeletons on this one, as I was in discussion a bit ago with a SC member on how to bypass fuel cut. If I can figure that out, without fucking with the MAP sensor, that's one more hurdle out of the way, leaving me to basically match fuel/air-out to the desired dialed boost...

-Bny
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:54 AM   #12
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Yes, I've thought of the RRFPR's but have heard they are oftentime's an absolute PITA to get running correctly? I've no personal experience. You're right, there are tons of different ways to push more fuel, I'm just trying to think of the best way overall, aside from plopping down $550 for a chip. It's not even the money factor, it's the 'I want to do it myself' factor that truly interests me. I was talking about this to some of the Maine guys LAST year and have yet to do anything. I'm getting ansy, now.

Anyone out there have direct 'fool the MAP' experience? I think someone does, I forget his name...

-Bny

PS thanks for the kind words above and the encouragement. I'm not one to listen to many naysayers. If it costs me an engine, then such is life?

Yeah it would take some work to get the rrfpr setup working.
I know some VW guys use a diode to trick the MAP on the 1.8Ts.
Check out vwvortex.com if you get a chance.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:52 AM   #13
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You can tune it with a SAFC or the like im sure, which you can pick up for like 150-200 and get a pretty reliable tune.
you're just gonna get made hate from people because its not as safe as trionic bla bla bla
you cant do it. it throws a cel as soon as you change any settings....been there...done that.



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