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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 11-22-2018, 11:31 AM   #1
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I got a spare B204 for cheap last summer, and I'm considering putting a 2.3 rotating assembly in when I rebuild the engine.

I've seen like 2 or 3 B234 cranks for sale locally during the last months, but no pistons and rods

I found that info on another forum:

b204 - big with four valve slits, 153mm rods
b205 - small with a small center dome, 159mm rods
b234 - big with big center dome, 147mm rods
b235 - small with big center dome, 153mm rods

(from https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/a.../t-248738.html)

Is rod length actually the same for the B204 and B235?

If so, do B234 and B235 cranks have the same stroke? That would mean shorter pin height pistons for the B235.

Is it possible to combine a B234 crank, B204 rods, and aftermarked B235 pistons in a B204 block?

In general, are the longer rods of the B235 causing durability issues over the B234?
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:54 PM   #2
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WIS lists the B204 rod length at 153mm the B235 also at 153mm and B205 at 159mm, and the 234i (naturally aspirated) also at 153mm.

Talking with Nick years a go, he told me that the T7 rods are good to 600 or 700 HP.

My brother's car running a GTX3071 is probably the most powerful car I've tuned, and that's at least 450 HP at the wheels running a ported B235 with stock everything except JE pistons--no problems.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Trionic3000; 11-22-2018 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 11-22-2018, 05:30 PM   #3
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You know, thinking more about your question and reading through that link, I think folks make a bigger deal out of getting more rpm out of the 2L than it deserves. The B235 is actually still a 'square' motor with a beefy bottom end with 90mm bore and 90mm stroke that I think can out rev an unmodified head.

One shop that I had balance a forged piston B235 for me certified their work to 7.5k or 8k I don't remember which for sure, but it was higher than I wanted to run things for a street engine with stock valve springs---I didn't ask for any type of certification or anything, they were just impressed with the beefiness.

edit: Btw, the B204/205 are 90mm bore x 78mm stroke
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Trionic3000; 11-22-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:31 AM   #4
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Thanks for your reply Drew. From what I read people tend to prefer the B204 in high hp builds for beeing more rev happy.

However although there may be a replacement for displacement when it comes to forced induction, it definately helps with turbo spool on the street.

So based on the rod lengths, building a 2.3 with a B234 crank, B204 block and rods, and forged B235 aftermarket pistons would work.

Do you happen to know if the diameter of the big and small rod ends are identical for the B204 and B235? What about block deck height, is it the same for the B2x4 and B2x5 engines?

I just want to make 100% sure this will work, it would really suck to spend a couple hundred $$$ for parts and balancing, just to find out the pistons will be sticking out of the block or something when I assemble it
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:17 PM   #5
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No problem at all, happy to help. I've never done what you're proposing; I've been reading for years but all the builds I've done to-date have been limited to putting forged pistons and experimenting with T5 headgaskets on B2x5R engines.

I don't have the WIS module on this computer that describes both turbo and NA B234's, just the B234i which is NA. I think they're different but I don't know the turbo car measurements--someone here does for sure. I do think I have it on an old laptop that I can dig out (not tonight) if you really can't find it.

You never responded what turbo you're planning to run and what goals you have. What do you want it to do? What's your budget? I'd probably just run the B204 stock. I spent some time helping Comtrang get his Holset powered B204 running well a bunch of years back, those are good engines bone stock.

Why not leave the bottom of the B204 and convert to the T7 style head?

Unless you're doing something crazy, I think you'll see a larger difference with the bolt on stuff than you would trying to splice together some strange combination of rotating assembly.

Or...don't know what your budget is, but there are lightweight rod options available.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:45 AM   #6
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I'm running the stock 9-5 TD04 right now, and my plan was to convert a second unit I bought used a couple years ago to 19T.

Well this has turned from a daily driver into kind of a special interest car, so there is some budget. I've seen the results people are getting with the HX35 and HX40, and they're quite impressive.

In your opinion, are the extra cubes rather not worth the hassle?

And does the T7 head really breathe that much better?
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:00 PM   #7
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Either way I think you can have a pretty nice build. I'm not really qualified to have an opinion directly on the T5 vs. T7 head flow because I haven't ever seen any hard numbers, but as I understand it the T7 head is worthwhile. I'd do a T7 head and cams before going through the hassle to get to 2.3.

Actually, for a 19T I wouldn't be worried about the extra displacement, a 19T will still make more power down low than you can put to the ground anyway. I drove a B205R 19T SE for years and it was faster than a lot of Viggens.

I'd lean towards putting the money towards maxing out the bolt on stuff, header, intercooler, cams, injectors. Or even the turbo; there's someone making light weight higher efficiency billet wheels for the TD04 that have GTX-like extended tip technology grafted onto the old cast compressor designs and also reduced blade count higher flow billet turbines.

I'm running two versions, both with high flow turbines, one's a 20T staggered blade design and the other's a 20T all tall blade configuration. As I understand it, these were ripped off of the old reverse rotation SRT4 version of the TD04, mirrored, and had extended-tip features added; they fit and they're awesome. They're light and spool faster and flow more at better efficiency. I had to add fuel pretty much everywhere. Upgrading from the old 19T to one of these new billet setups would make a bigger difference than going from 2.0 to 2.3.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:51 AM   #8
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Thanks for the info. Who makes these billet 20T compressor wheels?

Also it obviously will be easier on the transmission to run an engine that produces less torque. In this regard less displacement and higher revs to make the same power as with the bigger engine at lower revs and more torque would be beneficial.

So I take it that installing a 2.3 rotating assembly is not really worth the time and money spent if you already have a B204? That's not such a bad thing, because I can spend the money elsewhere then
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:53 PM   #9
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Who makes these billet 20T compressor wheels?
I tried but I haven't been able to figure that out exactly. As near as I can tell, it's someone in Taiwan who bought a 5-axis CNC machine and took the time to reverse engineer and give the TD04 some love.

They're selling stuff on ebay, or selling to sellers, can't tell for sure. In any case, I had G-Pop build the 2 units I'm running now. I really like those guys. http://gpopshop.com/

For a performance build I'd go for the "all tall" 20T wheel option, but be absolutely sure to pair that only with the highest flow lowest blade count turbine wheel, and port as much material as possible out of the largest turbine housing you can find, I think it'll be a 7cm^2. You won't cause unacceptable lag, the frame is too small.

I went a step further and totally opened up the exhaust side straight to 3" v-band



And I still burnt a valve a couple of weeks ago after my wastegate vac line popped off.
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First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Trionic3000; 11-28-2018 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:42 AM   #10
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So glad to see tech talk is still going on in the forums

Thanks Drew!
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:27 AM   #11
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Nice work Drew. Can you please post more pics of that turbine housing?

What are your egts? Fuel?
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