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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 04-07-2004, 02:11 PM   #1
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Propane Injection Unit arrived.

I plan on finding Nate and seeing if he wants to help install this monster Sat.

Stay tuned for pics.
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- pretend you are watering delicate plants...
Quote:
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 04-07-2004, 04:45 PM   #2
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i was just thinking how good do you think that is going to work becouse propane is usualy used on diesels becouse they have higher compression than gasoline engines so are you sure you will get the same effect on a car
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Old 04-08-2004, 05:32 AM   #3
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Ben,

Is it a propane injection kit or a water/alcohol injection kit? I thought it was alcohol...

Regardless, I'm available Saturday. Call me at home or on my cell tonight and we'll work it out.
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Old 04-08-2004, 07:44 AM   #4
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it's a shame Ben you're nowhere on my way home - otherwise I'd stop in for a few before going the rest of the way. Anywhere near the tapen-zee bridge that is "easy" to get to that you'd wanna meet - or is that also too far for you? Just a thought
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Old 04-08-2004, 06:48 PM   #5
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Yeah Nate propane.

TK its a kit developed for the Turbo Buicks, Give me a buzz this Sat, I'll tell ya where to find me.

Jeff, sorry, I am going to be messing with the car and trecking the route somemore. Tapanzee is a good 2 hours or so away.
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- pretend you are watering delicate plants...
Quote:
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 04-09-2004, 05:39 AM   #6
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Ben, I gotta be somewhere in Syracuse at 5:30 pm. How early do you wanna start?
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:14 AM   #7
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I have no pics of the install, but this Sat, Nate (of the brake job fame) and myself installed the OGS Pro-Pain Kit onto my Saab.

This unit is available thru http://www.onlygoodstuff.com/ and retails for about $600. I bought mine unused but second hand for alot less than that.

The theory is to cool the intake like alky/water injection, but also increase the octane rating.


This is the unit mounted in the trunk, you can see the regulator and solenoid assembly. Also the line runing under the car, and a purge tube in case the tank needs to vent.

We installed the bracket, and tank in the location you see. We ran the line into the lower frame rail, and used that to run it to the middle of the car. Bypassing the rear suspension and gaining some sheilding from the exhaust. We then ran the line in between the rear brake lines, up into the engine bay, and mounted the nozzle a few inches from the TBTC.

I used the jet labled 70 with the kit, but may want to see If I can go a hair smaller.

Wireing the control module was simple, it all plugs in, and I used the headlight switched ignition I am using for the air/fuel gauge for power, and I grounded to the fuse box ground. The cable I ran along the insid of the car just under the door trim, along the factory wiring harnes. I cheated into the trunk and just ran it behind the seats.
The module:
I place under the dash, I didn't want to originally install there, but the length of supplied hoses forced me. It has grown on me, and I think I will leave it.
The last thing to do was fill the tank, about $4.50 US. and tap into the hose for the BOV. At some point I may change the tap point to the boost gauge.
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- pretend you are watering delicate plants...
Quote:
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:19 AM   #8
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After setting the spray to come on at 8 psi or so, I set the solenoid duty cycle to less than 50%.

The Air/Fuel gauge shows a good spike in fuel at injection point. I have also noticed slightly better fuel economy, although during full boost runs up and down a hill 8 times, I was showing about 14mpg :cheesy: It seems steady at 23mpg now. For my car thats an improvement.

I do think she stumbles a bit at wot at injection point, but I can rectify that with a smaller jet.

Boost spool up stayed fast, it was however a mid 40 degree day, and the real test will come in the hot days of July. Strangly, after upping my MBC, I saw a spike all the way to 19psi, and no fuel cut. I doubt I was running purely off the propane. This gave me the impression the unit is doing its job to cut down knock, and advance the spark a bit. As the days warm up, I will continue to update.
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Quote:
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can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:24 PM   #9
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I was having trouble with this unit after a second fill. I thought I was overfilled, but found I can controll the line pressure (duh ) So now I have everything back to normal. System will be online and working for Saabtoberfest.
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- pretend you are watering delicate plants...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABseanSCANIA
can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:09 PM   #10
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ha ha - sweet - so I still get to test drive it right :P
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Old 11-19-2004, 07:01 AM   #11
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Tweek...,

Have you finished "tweeking" (pun intended) your propane injection, and had her dyno'd yet. Seems like a cool mod to do.

That's still one of the coolest places for that boost guage location...looks like a earlier model push switch for the headlights your using. Getting tired of looking at mine on the A-frame. I have the same car.., what switch are you using for the headlights?

regards
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:33 PM   #12
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read the tutorial i wrote on the boost guage install, i put mine in the same place

Brian
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Old 11-20-2004, 03:21 AM   #13
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"The theory is to cool the intake like alky/water injection, but also increase the octane rating. "

Propane injection is pretty cool, but just to be 100% clear Alky/Water injection also raises the octane number because of the relatively high octane Methanol/Ethanol both have.

Propane has an octane rating (AON) of 104, Methanol and Ethanol have octane ratings (AON) of 119, and 116 repsectively.

The big advantage to propane is the cooling effect as it expands and goes from liquid to gas. The big disadvantage is that this gas displaces a fair amount of oxygen. With a turbo car if you displace some O2, you just up the boost to compensate, but on a naturally aspirated car the displacement causes a serious loss in power.

Anyway ... looks like loads of fun. How long does one of those bottles last? Also, be careful with the police. You don't have a firewall between your trunk and rear seats, so in most states you can't have a propane tank there for any purpose other than transportation to your home.

I won't turn you in for it though.

Adrian~
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Old 11-20-2004, 03:47 AM   #14
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I thought you guys might appreciate this. It's a list of a number of chemicals and their octane ratings, and some general gasoline information:

The percent is the percentage that group of chemicals usually makes up in gasoline composition. Also, to compare it to US gasoline (RON + MON)/2 = AON or AKI. (Average Octane Number, and Average Knock Index respectively).

15% n-paraffins RON MON
n-butane 113 : 114
n-pentane 62 : 66
n-hexane 19 : 22
n-heptane (0:0 by definition) 0 : 0
n-octane -18 : -16
( you would not want to have the following alkanes in gasoline,
so you would never blend kerosine with gasoline )
n-decane -41 : -38
n-dodecane -88 : -90
n-tetradecane -90 : -99
30% iso-paraffins
2-methylpropane 122 : 120
2-methylbutane 100 : 104
2-methylpentane 82 : 78
3-methylpentane 86 : 80
2-methylhexane 40 : 42
3-methylhexane 56 : 57
2,2-dimethylpentane 89 : 93
2,2,3-trimethylbutane 112 : 112
2,2,4-trimethylpentane 100 : 100
( 100:100 by definition, also known as iso-octane hence "octane ratings")
12% cycloparaffins
cyclopentane 141 : 141
methylcyclopentane 107 : 99
cyclohexane 110 : 97
methylcyclohexane 104 : 84
35% aromatics
benzene 98 : 91
toluene 124 : 112
ethyl benzene 124 : 107
meta-xylene 162 : 124
para-xylene 155 : 126
ortho-xylene 126 : 102
3-ethyltoluene 162 : 138
1,3,5-trimethylbenzene 170 : 136
1,2,4-trimethylbenzene 148 : 124
8% olefins
2-pentene 154 : 138
2-methylbutene-2 176 : 140
2-methylpentene-2 159 : 148
cyclopentene 171 : 126
( the following olefins are not present in significant amounts
in gasoline, but have some of the highest blending octanes )
1-methylcyclopentene 184 : 146
1,3 cyclopentadiene 218 : 149
dicyclopentadiene 229 : 167

Oxygenates
Published octane values vary a lot because the rating conditions are
significantly different to standard conditions, for example the API Project
45 numbers used above for the hydrocarbons, reported in 1957, gave MTBE
blending RON as 148 and MON as 146, however that was partly based on the
lead response, whereas today we use MTBE in place of lead.

methanol 133 : 105
ethanol 129 : 102
iso propyl alcohol 118 : 98
methyl tertiary butyl ether 116 : 103
ethyl tertiary butyl ether 118 : 102
tertiary amyl methyl ether 111 : 98

There are some other properties of oxygenates that have to be considered
when they are going to be used as fuels, particularly their ability to
form very volatile azeotropes that cause the fuel's vapour pressure to
increase, the chemical nature of the emissions, and their tendency to
separate into a separate water-oxygenate phase when water is present.
The reformulated gasolines address these problems more successfully than
the original oxygenated gasolines.

Before you rush out to make a highly aromatic or olefinic gasoline to
produce a high octane fuel, remember they have other adverse properties,
eg the aromatics attack elastomers, may generate smoke, and result in
increased emissions of toxic benzene. The olefins are unstable ( besides
smelling foul ) and form gums. The art of correctly formulating a gasoline
that does not cause engines to knock apart, does not cause vapour lock in
summer - but is easy to start in winter, does not form gums and deposits,
burns cleanly without soot or residues, and does not dissolve or poison the
car catalyst or owner, is based on knowledge of the gasoline composition.

Adrian~
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Old 11-21-2004, 10:31 AM   #15
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I just drank a 40...what are u saying?
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Quote:
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- pretend you are watering delicate plants...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABseanSCANIA
can be prone to failure due to increased localized stresses in the hole penetrations
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Old 11-22-2004, 07:59 AM   #16
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crooked I?
O.E.?
colt 45?
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1990 900 turbo vert
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:32 PM   #17
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Nope plain old bud...and I know it was early, but I was at a U.B. dorm for the weekend.
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Quote:
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