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Performance Modifications for the Classic 900 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the Classic 900. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:26 AM   #41
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I didn't even put the CIS idle valve on the 16 valve CIS engine. When you have no ancillaries you don't need a variable idle
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:41 AM   #42
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yeah his crazy ass still has A/C, i dont deal with that shit.

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:47 AM   #43
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The AC only works correctly on the highway now cause I do not have the fast idle switch wired up to my AC switch correctly (all 8V's with AC have this), but once I have the fast idle wired to the AC switch, it should be as good as it gets with the 8 valve idle control system. The way I have it now with no fast idle switch, it idles too low and may stall in traffic with the AC on.
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:48 AM   #44
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I've just left the AIC unplugged but Jeff's idle valve seems like a pretty sweet and simple setup so I might look into one of those in the future.
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:52 AM   #45
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yeah it is basically direct fit, the mounting points on top of the T-stat housing is even correct for it.

FYI, the UK spec. LH 2.2 cars used this exact idle control valve set up, from the factory.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:53 AM   #46
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I'm running with a line between the openings of the AIC-valve (k-jet one, you know), and it works quite well! Think I'm going to shift back to the the k-jet unit, I have a new one kicking around anyway, so might try it out, along with some sort of bleed still though. I want a more stable idle than what I got now...
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:25 PM   #47
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somethings not right, I think Im having the same problems keith had because the fuel pump is running non stop when the MS box is hooked up. I did the board mod so I dont know what the problem could be so Im going to check out the wiring.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:28 PM   #48
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Have a scroll through megasquirt.info, believe I've read something about it on there...
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:04 AM   #49
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how are you guys hooking up a cam position sencer? are you running DI with megasquirt?

i have a 9000 and want to run Ms,, but id like to figure out a better solution than making my own Cam position sencer
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:30 AM   #50
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how are you guys hooking up a cam position sencer? are you running DI with megasquirt?

i have a 9000 and want to run Ms,, but id like to figure out a better solution than making my own Cam position sencer
If you are going to run MS2E then you don't need any cam sensor. What you will need is to mod your stock crank sensor.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:13 PM   #51
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If you are going to run MS2E then you don't need any cam sensor. What you will need is to mod your stock crank sensor.
unless of course you wanted to use the DI firing sequentially, rather than in wasted spark mode. then you would need a cam and a crank sensor.

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Old 09-27-2007, 03:01 PM   #52
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unless of course you wanted to use the DI firing sequentially, rather than in wasted spark mode. then you would need a cam and a crank sensor.

Paul

that it what ive been told, and id prefer not to run in wasted spark because wasted spark will kill DI cassets,

any ideas on an easy to make cam position sencer,, will the hall effect sencer of a distributer work? could i used a distributer as a sencer (maybe my using the rotar as a contact for a signal??


any ideas welcome
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:28 PM   #53
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that it what ive been told, and id prefer not to run in wasted spark because wasted spark will kill DI cassets,

any ideas on an easy to make cam position sencer,, will the hall effect sencer of a distributer work? could i used a distributer as a sencer (maybe my using the rotar as a contact for a signal??


any ideas welcome
How did 88 to 93 DI-APC work then? The trigger wheel is a 3 window hall sensor wheel. It did not work in wasted spark mode, it fired 2 companion cylinder coils at the same time. DI-APC knew where cylinder 1 was and because of that it knew when to fire each companion coils. If the DI-APC box can read stock trigger wheel am shure future MS2/extra wouild be able to do it.
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:05 PM   #54
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How did 88 to 93 DI-APC work then? The trigger wheel is a 3 window hall sensor wheel. It did not work in wasted spark mode, it fired 2 companion cylinder coils at the same time. DI-APC knew where cylinder 1 was and because of that it knew when to fire each companion coils. If the DI-APC box can read stock trigger wheel am shure future MS2/extra wouild be able to do it.
thats not really the problem at this point, yes the MS can read the stock crank sensor, but it cant interperate the information that the DI usually gives about when to fire the coils. with T5 for example, it fires in wasted spark when you first start the car (for a few revolutions i think) then through ion sensing trionic is able to figure out what cyl is supposed to fire when. as of now this isnt something MS is capable of, so you need a cam sensor and a crank sensor, unless you want to run in wasted spark but thats basically just going to kill DIs. no joke.

Paul
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:17 AM   #55
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you are using coils within cassete, as far as I know coils don't go bad that easy, they go bad when they overheated because of too much dwell. I never had to test bad Saab DI cassete but appears that only ion sensing go bad and not the coils.
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:15 AM   #56
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DI/APC does utilize wasted spark mode, but on a much more stingy basis, DI uses wasted spark if you crank your car, and it doesnt start, so then you crank it again, and on the second crank wasted spark happins.

however this still doesnt help with a cam position sencer,,
raul, do you run DI? if so is it in wasted spark, or is there a cam position sencer?

would a distributer from an early c900 (with hall effect) work as a cam position sencer?

and more importantly, what type of signal is Ms looking for,, does MS simply want one 12v pulse per revolution of cam?? if so thats an easy sencer to fab up, or is MS looking for something more complicated than that?
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:13 AM   #57
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Old thread, but I thought I'd chime in.

Sorry if my web page is a bit hard to follow. It is a collection of my notes and not really a how-to.

Raul's posts are a bit confusing. As Paul says, DI needs either a cam sensor or the combustion signals from the DI cassette to go sequential and neither MS1 nor MS2 can decode these signals from the DI cassette to replace a cam sensor. Trionic, DI/APC and DI+APC fire the DI cassette in wasted spark mode when it is cranking. When it gets the combustion signals and decodes them, it then switches to sequential mode. I do not know how quickly you will kill a DI if running it in wasted spark mode. I do know that getting appropriate signal to trigger the DI cassette, regardless of COP or wasted spark is critical for performance. Raul has determined that the 'Charge at trigger' option for MS2 works very nicely with the DI/APC wheel to get a proper signal to the DI. For MS1/E you will need to do the code edit from my web page as there is no charge at trigger option for MS1. This wheel or a modified EZK wheel would be a great companion to a cam sensor. Yes, you can modify a distributor to be a cam sensor. The code needs a single tooth wheel. You can modify a distributor to be a single tooth wheel by cutting off 3 of the teeth. I do not know which one should be left in order to make sure that the cabling runs correctly, but that can pretty easily be determined. That said, I do not recommend trying to run DI unless you feel the need for a challenge. A single coil will work fine on these low revving 4 cylinders. I do recommend a fresh coil (Bosch Red, MSD Flame Thrower, etc.) and allowing MS to control the dwell for the coil. It is only when you are beyond the HP peak that the loss of spark energy becomes a problem. I am sure Raul will post that I am an idiot, but do the math.

Flooding and constant running fuel pump is because the FPR is powered by constant 12V and the drive circuit on the MS board cannot deal with it properly on shut down. I have instructions buried on my page to fix this for both the V2.2 and V3 board. If this happens, you may also have killed the FET driver chip which would need to be replaced, too.

To drive the 2 wire AIC, you need to perform the PWM idle valve modification in the manual, but you need a diode 'across the IAC'. On a V2.2 board, this is how the circuit is constructed and no further modification is needed. On a V3 board, you need to put a 1n4001 diode between the output line and +12V (this basically duplicating the circuit as it was on the V2.2 board). Remove Q20, Short R39, Remove D8. Add 1N4001 diode by putting its non band end in the band end hole of D8, (labeled as C on the schematic) and put the band end of the new diode to +12V Raw. On mine, I did this on the bottom of the board to pin 28. Otherwise, the signal to the AIC is incorrect and idle control will not work properly. Trust me the code does work. I will be re-writing the idle code shortly to be a true PID control loop and it should make it more robust.

The current HiRes code is what you should be running if you are running MS1. As of this post it is at HR_11b. Links to this are found on msextra.com The MS2/E code works nicely as well and gives more precise injector pulse width and more accurate spark dwell and timing. It is not necessary, though, and I recommend getting it running on MS1/E first and determine if you want the added challenge of MS2/E later as it has a lot more to tweak and tune compared to MS1/E.

If anything else is needed, PM me and I'll try to help.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:19 PM   #58
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Sweet!
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:35 PM   #59
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I under estemated the potential of bosch LH2.4 fuel system. Here in Arizona we got dyno emission testing for pre 96 cars and it is very strict almost as bas as California. LH2.4 have deceleration fuel cut off so it emits 0 emissions when decelerating for example high rpm then you close the throttle, it shuts the injectors down, I can see it on my wideband guage, goes off the scale into lean. Thats the reason I failed CO emissions with MS2 on my car, so I had to install the LH2.4 again to pass emissions and to test my tuned chips. I was able to tune the LH2.4 ecu to have nice solid air fuel ratio same as MS2 so am keeping the LH2.4 on the car and will see what will I do with my MS2.

----------------------------------

Adaptive (Self Calibrating) Lambda and Idle Control Circuits
The 2.4 LH ECU continually monitors the operating range of both fuel mixture and the idle speed. The ECU is then able to reset the baseline calibration of each automatically. The traditional measuring and adjusting points have been eliminated. The end result is a reduction in service requirements and greater long-term accuracy in engine speed and fuel settings.
Self diagnostics
The "check engine" light will display 25 different codes relating to faults or system checks.
Fuel shut-off on deceleration
The dashpot has been eliminated. Both fuel ....' /
. -J
consumption and emissions are reduced by shutting off the injectors during deceleration.
Upshift light operation
( ..,
The need for a separate throttle switch, temperature sensor, manifold pressure transducer and control relay has been eliminated. The 2.4 ECU calculates the shift points by the same data that it uses to determine injector duration. The only additional part required is a
/
simple polarity reversing relay which changes the ground signal provided by the ECU into the 12v needed by the upshift indicator.
Charcoal cannister purging
A solenoid valve (referred to as the ELCD valve) triggered by the ECU determines when the
charcoal cannister will be purged. Turbo and CIS engines will still have the purge valve operated by
manifold vacuum.

ECU
The ECU is easily identified by its 35-pin connector. The additional pins, of course, reflect the requirements of the new functions.
Air mass meter
The air mass meter, like all 1988 units has a plastic body. The 2.4 LH system is unique in that the "CO" adjusting screw has also been eliminated.
A.I.C. valve
The automatic idle control valves for the 2.4 LH system are recognized by the two-pin electrical ~onnector. In place of the oscillating motor-driven shutter of the earlier version, there is a solenoid operated slide. The valve IS spring-loaded to return to the open position. giving a fixed idle of approximately 1,200 rpm if the control circuit should fail. .
Diagnosis and repair
Common sense is still the best tool. In principle. the remainder of components in the 2.4 LH system are identical to those in the 2.2 LH version and the same troubleshooting procedures may be used. As always begin diagnosis by checking engine tune, grounds and battery connections before getting involved with elaborate test sequences.

The expanded capabilities of the ECU in the 2.4 fuel system includes a built-in self-diagnostic
mode utilizing the "check engine' light to display fault codes. The principal features of this system
are:
1.
The ability to detect and retain fault codes for intermittent problems
2.
The capacity to store up to three fault codes at a time
3.
A built-in component test cycle which actively tests all major fuel injection components. i.e. the fuel pump runs, the injectors click, etc.
Note: On 9000 models, do not use the check. engine light on the EDU II display for reading fault codes.

LH 2.4 Fuel Injection. Both the AIC and mixture control
systems are adaptive on this system. That means that each
system compensates automatically for changes in the engine
due to age or small problems. As a result, idle speed and mixture
do not need to be adjusted. A deceleration fuel shut-off
function in the LH 2.4 control unit replaces the deceleration
dashpot used on LH 2.2. An integrated Evaporative Loss Control
Device (ELCD) system is used on LH 2.4. Operation of the
ELCD valve is controlled by the LH control unit. Another main
feature of the LH 2.4 system is that it has on-board diagnostics.
See On-board Diagnostics for more information.

Last edited by Raul; 10-30-2008 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:37 PM   #60
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I found TPS sensor that will fit on stock throttle body, it is used on 88-92 bmw 3.5L with electric controlled transmission. Part number of TPS is 0 280 120 406, it has dual function, switch and sensor, you will have to get it with electrical plug then make two male connectors for TPS connector out of new generation crank sensor wire, this way you can still use it with jetronic and when you switch to megasquirt you can just plug it in. Sensor plug will be pointing down so the throttle coolant lines have to be eliminated.
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